how to find developing times for unknown film...plus other questions

Hi

 

I am just starting out with developing B&W.(Currently refurbishing the old dark

room in college).. I live in a relatively remote area in India and dont have easy

access to the a good choice of film and chemicals, but recently bought some

ilford and agfa chemicals as well as ansel adams the negative and am ready

to start developing and printing.

 

Here there is a generic brand of film available (called nova or something) which

is decent and due to real low cost is something i can keep playing around with.

 

But due to its unknown nature, I am unable to find any development times for

this film.

 

What is the way to start and arrive at a reasonable development time for an

unknown film.

 

Thanks a lot

 

Udai

 

p.s. i bought 3 1-liter packs of Ilford ID-11, 1/2 lt of Agfa multicontrast paper

developer, ilford 1/2l rapid fixer and tetenal stopbath with indicator... I plan

to use id-11 at 1:3 dilution as then it would fit nicely into my developing tank

(375 ml is for 1 reel, and 1:3 dilution id-11 would mean 400ml, which i can

then throw away)..

 

is all this ok? thanks again....i hope that it should last enough till the end of

the year...how do i maximise shelf life... i have a some amber glass bottles i

got from chem lab - a few are 2.5 litre and others are 1/2 liter

Ansel's book "The Negative" should give you details on how to fine tune

your development time. As a start, I would look at the development

times for similar speed and type of films and take an average.

This should place you near enough for fine tuning.

 

For storage the amber glass bottles are good. As soon as you have

mixed the chemicals pour them into the smaller size bottles, fill to

the brim and make sure the cap seals tightly. Usually smaller bottles

are better as they sit full for the longest time, and when

opened they are quickly used up.

<i>Here there is a generic brand of film available (called nova or something) which is decent and due to real low cost is something i can keep playing around with.<p>

 

But due to its unknown nature, I am unable to find any development times for this film.<p>

 

What is the way to start and arrive at a reasonable development time for an unknown film.</i><p>

 

Assuming this "Nova" film is a traditional silver based black and white emulsion, you can make some reasonable assumptions about it: first, that it will have similar processing times to similar emulsions from other manufacturers, and secondly that it will respond similarly to changes in developing time to other black and white films. Given those assumptions, finding the correctly developer time/temperature is relatively simple.<p>

 

First, you need to shoot one or more test rolls of this film, with careful metering at the rated ISO speed, on a test subject with a good range of brightness, from bright highlight to deep shadow. Then, in your darkroom or changing bag, clip off sections of the roll -- a few frames is enough -- and develop those sections at a range of times, starting with a time/temperature close to that for a similar film -- assuming this "Nova" is made in India, I'd be inclined to look at times for Foma films, since both are likely to be "old school" thick emulsions.<p>

 

Now, the important part: based on the appearance of the negatives, adjust the developing time for the next clip from the test roll, until you get negatives with the correct density. If the contrast is also correct, then you're done; if not, shoot another test at a different Exposure Index -- overexpose or underexpose the film relative to the manufacturer's rating; typically, you'll rate the film higher to underexpose and produce shadows with reduced detail and less dense highlights, or rate the film lower and thus expose more to add detail in the shadows and thicken the highlights (in the negative). Once again, do clip tests to find the correct development for the new exposure rating, but it'll likely be pretty close to the one found on the first test roll.<p>

 

If necessary, repeat the whole series of tests again, until you get film that is correctly exposed <i>and</i> correctly developed -- the brightest highlights at your final exposure should be dense, but not completely burned in, and the darkest shadows should still have hints of detail in the nearly clear areas of the negative.<p>

 

Once you've done all this, let everyone know what you found, so others in India can process Nova film in Ilford chemistry!

It's possible this is simply another brand of film sold under a different name- we see that here in the US quite commonly with storebrands. With color negative films in the US, "Made in Germany" = Agfa, "Made in Japan" = Konica, etc.

If you can find a development time for Kodak D-76, ID-11 is basically the same and the same time will be fine. If not, the first developer listed on the Nova package is likely the Nova film manufacturer's equivalent to D-76, the most duplicated formula in the world. It will probably be a good starting point.

 

Developing with 1:3 dilution has some advantages but it also has some consequences. I recommend diluting 1:1. You will get finer grain but excellent tonality. There is also a school of thought that 100 mL of stock developer is not enough to develop a roll of film. I have not tested to see if it's true.

 

You have the issue of economy, though, so using deeply diluted ID-11 will be tempting. Try it, but try 1:1 also. Never re-use the developer once diluted; discard it.

Dear Udai,

 

Develop it in whatever you've got. If it prints OK on grade 2 or 3, that's the right developing time. If you need HARD paper (3-4-5) more often than soft, you are under-developing: increase dev time by 1 minute decrements until you get negs that print OK on 2-3. If you neeed SOFT paper (2-1-0) more often than hard, you are over-developing and need to cut dev times by 1/2 minute at a time etc.

 

Where in India are you? I love your country; my best mototcycle tour ever was 4000 km Thiruvottiyur (guess what I was riding) -- Cape Comorin -- Goa -- Thiruvottiyur.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

Thanks for all the ideas.. I suppose the best way is to try and see what happens,

which is what I'll do next..

 

Roger, wow!! 4000km must have been a nice ride... What u were riding... well

since u've asked it that way, it might have been an Enfield (Indian Harleys ;-)

I'm from New Delhi, though I study at another city called Kanpur.

 

Thanks

 

Udai

Hi Udai...

I too am using Nova's FP4 (dont know if it has anything to do with Ilford's FP4)... It has absolutely no instructions for developing. If you Live in Delhi I guess you can give your film to any pro lab and get it done then ask them to give you the timing... most labs in india use either TMax or D76. I can reccomend shops in bombay or madras.. Or you can use Donalds method.. (thanks Donald! gonna try it sometime.).. I do know that the film for Nova is from "European Origin" as it is mentioned on the box but the make can be anything from Orwo, agfa, forte or ilford... I have this other film named Sterling(Indian make) that I have given to the shop... will let you know how it turned out and the developing time.... Will be processing my Nova FP4 at Bombay... hence I can only know the times later on.. The equipment you have is more than enough for all processing and printing needs.. The rapid fixer i hear can only be used on film once... following which it can be reused once for paper. Hence you might want to get a "slower" Fixer that can be reused many times. 1:3 in my opinion is the ideal ratio as I use this ratio for paterson tanks with ilford film and Microdol-X developer.. I get good results and fine grain(I like fine grain). Anyway, welcome to the dark side! :-) You'll find the darkroom an enjoyable place and the new hobby fun and addictive...

 

Roger,

 

that was one heck of a motorcycle ride. I am currently in Madras and after seein the motorcycling here I assume you must be one really awesome rider man!You used an enfield bullet right? Tiruvottiyur is near Chennai(atleast the same state) and I am currently in Chennai.. Will be going to Bombay in two days.. And i do my travelling in trains... A lot of nice things to shoot.... Esp B/W!

 

Cheers,

 

Nandakumar

Oh yeah.. For any other film dev time.. just go to www.digitaltruth.com They have timings for any film-developer combi. To maximise shelf life store all chemicals in a refrigirator.

 

Cheers,

 

Nandakumar