susansav Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I've been using an old 55mm macro lens on the also old but works fine Nikon Ftn that my brother-in-law lent me to learn photography on. I love it! But, I want to get closer - 1:1 - and don't like extension tubes. Can anyone recommend a lens that will go "lifesize" that will fit this camera? I'm happy with used but would consider new. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_watson Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Do you have the matching M2 extension tube? This takes the 55/3.5 to 1:1; without it, the 55 is capable only of a 1:2 image ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ditto the M2 tube - it's a handy companion to the 55/3.5 Micro Nikkor. If you want a macro lens in the "normal" range that goes 1:1 there was a Vivitar that would do the trick. It was supposed to be a pretty good lens too. But no advantage over the 55/3.5 Micro Nikkor with M2 tube - as a macro lens goes to 1:1 usually one of two things happen: 1. The effective aperture decreases due to the "bellows effect"; or... 2. The effective focal length shortens. Other folks more familiar than I with the various Micro Nikkors have described these in detail during the past few months on this forum. A quick search should turn up a few discussions. I've heard mostly pros and a few cons regarding the 60/2.8 AF Micro Nikkor. Don't remember whether that one goes 1:1, tho'. The M2 will be much cheaper too. No optics to go bad. Very simple linkage between body and lens. (Hint, hint - save your money for film, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Oh, drat, I forgot... Another *excellent* Vivitar product is/was their 2x Macro Focusing Teleconverter. This may have been the finest optical instrument Vivitar produced since the glory days of their Series 1 lenses. It's a 7-element converters that allows continuous focusing from 1:1 to infinity. The magnification ring can be used as a sort of focus ring if you prefer, or it can be used to preset the attached lens to a specific magnification ratio for precision work. Best used with a normal lens. While you could use it with the 55/3.5 Micro Nikkor the effective speed loss may be troubling. I found my Vivitar unit (from my days as a Canonite, long since gone) was handiest with a 50/1.4 or 50/1.8 normal lens. As long as the normal lens is a relatively flat field type, so will be the Vivitar macro focusing converter. The flattest field Nikkor in the normal lens range may be the very affordable 50/2 AI Nikkor. I've used my M2 tube in conjunction with my 55/3.5 Micro Nikkor and 50/2 AI Nikkor and cannot see the difference between the photos. Flat field/field curvature results are entirely comparable, as are distortion, contrast, resolution and every other factor that matters. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald_choi Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I use the Nikon 60mm 2.8D Micro-Nikkor. It goes to down to 1:1 very easily with no extension tubes. For your needs, I highly recommend it. Super sharp and contrasty. Keep in mind, tho, at 1:1, the tip of your lens will only be a few inches away from your subject. If you want greater working distance, I suggest you look into the other micro-nikkors like the 105mm or the 200mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnabdas Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Buy a Tamron 90mm/2.8 AF macro. Great lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Whats not to like about extension tubes? I own stacks of them. Well, two and a half stacks :)<br> <br> The 55/2.8 AIS Nikkor that youve been using is a fine general purpose macro. It uses the PK-13 (27.5mm) extension tube to achieve 1:1. Better results between 1:2 and 1:1 may be achieved by using the shortest tube necessary for the ratio desired, i.e. PK-11a and or PK-12 (8mm and 14mm) then the PK-13.<br> <br> The AF 60/2.8(D) is a little better close up and not quite as good at infinity compared to the 55/2.8. No extension tubes are required for 1:1 with the AF 60/2.8(D). This lens fits your preference.<br> <br> You might like to pickup a copy of John Shaws <u>Close-ups In Nature</u>. If you get even more serious about macro this book shows many techniques for achieving 1:1 and beyond and has tips and shows setups for lights also. It can easily save one more that the $15.00 to $23.00 (USD) it costs. Its well worth buying now.<br> <br> Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_bridge Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Assuming you are talking about an Nikon F with Photomic FTN finder like the one I still own/use (pre-AI meter coupling) and you want to maintain meter coupling: 1) Vivitar 55mm f/2.5 macro goes 1:1 with out extension tubes - rare one I still own and use and have AI converted it. 2) Add a meter coupling prong to one of the following: a) 105mm AFD f/2.8 micro - at 1:1 it is about 80mm and has a bit more working distance. b) 60mm AFD f/2.8 micro I agree, pre-AI extension tubes that meter couple are rare and a pain, a situation greatly improved by AI coupling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_oleson Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Since you already have a 55mm Micro Nikkor, any teleconverter will turn it into a 110mm that focuses down to 1:1 and gives you a little breathing space..... you don't need a special macro-focusing converter, and regular teleconverters are easy to find and not very expensive. Of course, your maximum aperture is going to be f/7..... rick :)= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susansav Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 Thanks... what worries me is getting a lens to fit with the Ftn that I have. The lenses that I use have a little prong that fits into a moving thing that attaches to the meter somehow. The moving thing has numbers on it: 1.4, 2.8, 5.6 (something like that - I'm not with the camera at the moment). If you don't get the lens attached pointing to the number that is closest to the lens' maximum aperture, then the pictures come out with the wrong exposure. When you get it attached correctly, everything is fine. So when you say that I can get a newer lens modified to attach to my camera, can you be more specific? Or point me somewhere that describes all that? It sounds complicated.. I tried one of the extension tubes once and could barely see the subjects. Perhaps I had it attached wrong? Maybe I should spend more time with them? Will the picture come out as clear? Even so, a single lens would be nice if not too expensive. I do love the closeup. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd peach seattle, washi Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 <i> The lenses that I use have a little prong . . . So when you say that I can get a newer lens modified to attach to my camera, can you be more specific? </i><p> The modification is to attach the little prong. Nikon's current autofocus lenses don't have the little prong, but most have small 'indents' where the screws would go to attach the prong. <p> <i> I tried one of the extension tubes once and could barely see the subjects. </i> <p> Well, the image does get pretty dim with a tube. One possibility was that you were using the oldest, simplest tubes that don't couple to the aperture lever. With those, you're doing all your viewing at the taking aperture, very dim indeed. If that's what you have, you'd probably want to compose and focus with the aperture wide open, then set the aperture to the taking aperture just before shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_parker Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Susan, it would be easiest and cheapest to find a 'PK-3' extension tube, it has the prong/meter coupling built-in to match the meter coupling on your FTN. -Giving you accurate metering & 1:1. The M2 tube does not have the meter coupling, neither does the later PK-13, and if you buy one of the newer autofocus lenses that go down to 1:1, they won't couple with your meter either, because no prong (although you can have one added by a repair shop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_lofquist Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 For macro photography there are many compromises, and one is screen brightness when you are working close to 1:1. I certainly would suggest changing screens to something like one of the modern "Bright-View" types. A search on after-market screens may net some suggestions. You can console yourself with the fact that you don't have to do macros with a large format view camera's ground glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Any of those tubes will maintain your automatic diaphragm. If you get any tube other than the PK-3, you can still use it but you will have to employ stop-down metering. Focus normally and meter with the depth of field button pressed in. You will find 1:1 on a 55mm very difficult if you are working outside of studio conditions. Working distance will be very limited. Consider a telephoto macro for the long run, e.g. 105mm or 200mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_chan5 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 There is a Kiron 105/2.5 macro lens that is quite a gem. It goes to 1:1 without extension tubes, and you can generally find them for cheap ( ~$100). It was also resold as a "Lester Dine". I think if you search on photo.net you'll find a few more testimonials. I think you'll find the working distance of a 105mm is very useful - especially for photographing things like insects, or when you don't want the shadow of the lens intefering with lighting. I second the recommendation of the Vivitar MC-7 2x/macro converter. Just to push my luck, I put this teleconverter on the Kiron and got a photo of this incredibly unflappable bug.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_cook Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Susan - one note not related to your 1:1 issue: when mounting a lens on your camera, you don't have to set the prong to the largest aperture as you mount. The most common technique was to set the f-stop of the lens to 5.6, mount the lens to the body, and then rotate the f-stop ring on the lens from minimum to maximum and back again. That tells the meter the largest f-stop, and you won't have the problem of having it mis-set. That's the way that all of the early F series cameras worked. Hope this helps, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susansav Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 Thanks everyone! Looks like I should look for the PK-3 extension tube or else get a newer 60 or 105 (manual focus, right?) and get it modified - or better yet, find one already modified. I'll have to think about how I want to spend bigger money - there are several options to my goal of getting finer, more detailed macro pictures. Alex, funny you should mention large format macro... I am also considering getting a g-claron for the large format camera that I inherited (it has no lens). But now you have me worried! Is it really hard to focus? I know this belongs in another forum, perhaps you could show me where? Bob - Okay, I should set the lens aperture? I didn't realize you could do that separately. I'll definitely try that! It's so disappointing to get an off exposure when you try so hard to get it all right. I really love manually setting everything, but there are so many things to go wrong. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Oops! You did say Nikon FTn. What was I thinking? You need the PK-3 as pointed out by Neil Parker.<br> <br> <a href="http://www.keh.com/" target="_new"><u>KEH.com</u></a> has the <a href="http://www.keh.com/shop/product.cfm?bid=NK&cid=20&sid=newused&crid=5911872" target="_new"><u>PK-3 in excellent condition for $19.00</u></a>.<br> <br> Sorry for the error, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd peach seattle, washi Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 <i> or else get a newer 60 or 105 (manual focus, right?)</i> <p> This gets a little confusing. I'll give it a go. Most people who do this 1:1 type of macro work rely on manual focusing to precisely place the point of focus (did you want the stamen? or the pistil?). In Nikon, none of the manual focus micro/macro lenses ever went down to 1:1, they stopped at 1:2. You had to use an extension tube or bellows to get that last bit of extension. <p> Enter the 'modern design' of AF lenses. AF lenses like the Micro 60mm f/2.8, the 105mm f/2.8, and the 200mm f/4 (All AFD) focus down to 1:1 without using tubes. They do this by using complex 'internal focus' designs that shorten the focal length as they are focused closer. You don't get the same 'working distance' (distance from filter ring to subject) as you would with the older simpler lenses, but you avoid the need for a honkin' big focus helicoid or a separate extension tube. <p> For this reason, some people will use the modern AF lenses on the old MF bodies and focus them manually. <p> I can't speak with any authority on the various third party macro lenses (some of them are supposed to be quite good) but you may or may not find any MF lenses that go to 1:1 without tubes. The advance in internal focus designs happened at just about the same time the 'marketplace' switched to AF lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_watson Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Jeesh, what's so challenging about using an M2 tube and stop-down metering with a 55/3.5? Tubes are cheap, involve no optical compromises, and will take Susan into "1:1 land." Short working distance is "baked-in" with a 55.Live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susansav Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Alright, I'll try what I have. If that doesn't work satisfactorily then I'll order the PK-3. Looks like what I have is: PK-11, PK-12, PK-13, BR-2. All are tubes without prongs that attach. So I'll practice some with these and see how it goes. If it goes badly, then I'll probably buy the PK-3. Sounds like a plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Susan, You will need to use stop-down metering if you use the PK-13 with the FTn. To do this you press the DOF preview button while taking an exposure reading. The PK-3 was not made for very many years. I don�t know how hard they are to find. I�d advise grabbing one now since the price is quite low. Before the PK-3 tube the M and M2 tubes required stop-down metering. It�s not that hard to do but I think the convenience is worth $19.00 plus shipping. All the best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susansav Posted October 19, 2003 Author Share Posted October 19, 2003 I ordered the extension tube from KEH. They were prompt and it is in very nice condition. Now for an opportunity to use it! Something to look forward to... Perhaps I'll post a pic if one turns out nice. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now