Loading film into a Leica screwmount.

I have read the various manuals and other literature and am still

batting less than .500 when loading film into my IIIc and IIIf. I

vaguely recall some unpublished tricks of the trade regarding use of

(1) the T shutter setting and/or (2) credit cards or other plastic

devices to guide the film. Another question: Is it really required

to trim the film as shown in the instructions? If so, why hasn't

some entrepeneur made a buch of plexiglass templates to sell for $5-

10 versus the megabucks being charged for originals. Any advice will

be sincerely appreciated and will be attempted. The last roll of

film I turned in had less than 50% frames with any images at all.

Many of those with images were half-black. Advancing the film was

very stiff - God knows what was going on inside the camera.

James -- it is not all that bad. 1st - yes you should trim the leader which will make it much easier because there is a very small lip (part of the body) that the film has to clear. 2nd - drop the cassette and take-up spool into the chambers, look to see if the take-up sprockets are lined up, if not jiggle the advance knob to get the sprockets into the film. From there you should be home free. If you need a template to trim the leader a trip to your local hardware store to buy some plexiglass and outline the template, then cut it yourself should do the trick (need to think outside the box here). If you really still feel the need for some 'tricks' Cameraquest has several on their site.

I've had a couple LTM's since the late 60's and never had any trouble loading them. Back then the factory leaders were long enough you didn't need to trim them further (the diagram and instructions were important for people who spooled their own from bulk). Nowadays (since the advent of auto-loading cameras)the leaders are shorter and if you don't trim them you stand a chance the top edge will crush against the guide channel instead of slip into it, and if the film buckles and cracks it can penetrate the shutter. People who don't trim, do so at their own risk.

 

That said, you do not need an ABLON or one of the $40 knockoffs they sell on eBay. Just grab a small pair of scissors and extend the leader double the factory length. Where the leader becomes full-width should be curved rather than cut on a right-angle because it lessens the chance the leader can tear off when rewinding since the LTM takeup spool grips pretty tightly.

 

There is no reason to lock the shutter open on "T" (and use your fingers through the lens opening to guide the film into place--that's the technique you probably read about) or use your credit cards for anything other purpose than buying more Leicas.

 

Finally, this statement of yours: <<The last roll of film I turned in had less than 50% frames with any images at all. Many of those with images were half-black. Advancing the film was very stiff - God knows what was going on inside the camera.>> does not strike me as a problem caused by faulty loading. It sounds like your camera has shutter/transport problems that could use a good service.

I don't know what the going price is for the original ABLON. However, you can find new metal ones for sale on ebay for about $25.00. Since most people trim the film with a sharp metal blade such as a single edge razor, I don't think a plexiglass ABLON would be a good option.

I think the problem is that the lower edge of the film catches on the winding mechanism if untrimmmed film is pushed down into the camera. The purpose of trimming is to remove the section that catches and allow the winding mechanism teeth to engage with the sprockets properly (i.e. from one side as the film is wound on). Alternatively, a business card can be used to guide untrimmed film into position without catching; opening the shutter on T then allows you to check that the film is positioned correctly. You don't need to both trim and use a card - pick whichever works for you. I find that trimming works pretty well if the camera is loaded according to the instructions in the manual (http://yandr.50megs.com/leica/3f/page14.htm), and a cutting template isn't required (I use scissors on a mini pocket tool). Just don't cut through any sprockets, and use the illustrations in the manual as a guide to how much film to remove. It's probably worth experimenting with a junk roll of film until you can load the camera without difficulty. Also check that the rewind knob rotates as you wind on (but note that the rewind knob needs to be in the correct position for you to see this - before winding, gently turn it in the direction of the arrow until you feel slight resistance).

Jim, Looks like your camera needs CLA. You get half black since the shutter did not fully open. This is called "capping" due to lack of lubricant in the camera. It is very stiff since you are driving a car without engine oil, just force the metal move. It appears you loaded the film correctly and ran it through. When the camera is dry, the shutter will open half or none at fast speeds due to the lack of lubricant, consequently you get half exposed pictures or even nothing.

James - I have tried the tricks to avoid shaping the leader but I have settled with the cut leader as it works every time and I don't have to worry about having a creedit card and checking the sprockets. As has been said you can get a used Ablon on ebay - copies are just as good as originals and a lot cheaper.

No matter how it's done, the compelling goal is that the film not be crushed against the second (upper) film plane rail - the leader can be a bit long back into the can. The partial images will prove fleeting, worst at the higher speeds. They are a matter of curtain roller tension which, by itself, is a fairly simple adjustment.

A lot of us have struggled through the same process. After spending a fair amount on camera and lens (and it sounds like a CLA, too) a cheap metal knockoff template and a sharp blade will solve your problem, be quicker, and will make the whole process a lot more pleasant.

You're using a LEICA, for Chrissake -- you've already paid hundreds of dollars too much for a 50+ year old camera. Don't be so fu**ing cheap. Just buy the f**king template and use it. If you still have problems (and I expect that you will), send it to DAG or Sherry and spend another couple of hundred quid for a CLA, then expect to enjoy using it for another 50 years. Oh yeah, and always watch the take-up knob.

gee Bill, dont you know how to spell fun-king?

I've been trimming film for LTM Leicas since the 1960's (bulk loading) using only a pair of scissors and don't have any problems with film loading in IIIc's and IIIf's.

 

Take care that the transition from the full film width to the leader width is a smooth curve and without sharp corners (sharp corners will catch on the gate). Be especially careful not to cut through a sprocket hole when approaching the edge of the film - cut in between the holes. Watch as you load that the sprocket holes line up on the sprockets.

Hmmmmm, I love reading from people who get all in a twit over things that really do not affect them...

 

My favorite was someone getting all upset because i wondered why it was called a "Summilux". Why should it matter?

 

here's to Bill for making photo.net so entertaining.

http://www.mediajoy.com/en/lrc/b/index.html

Geeez...what a Megillah. Did you write that, John? If so your Hero icon may get revoked.

Nope.

I thought that I'd mellowed enough in my 3 month self-imposed absence from the forum to allow myself to resume posting. Guess not. I'd better try it again.

Thank you for all the replies. I will try to be extremely precise on my next attempt. I have gotten some wonderful results from my IIIc with Summitar. This was my first try at a IIIf with 50mm f3.5 Elmar. I am not 100% convinced that the camera itself is to blame. I will try to compare sounds and actions between IIIc and IIIf with lens off and no film. Can anyone recommend any "no film" tests to see in IIIf shutter is working OK? I received this camera some months ago from KEH whom I hold in high regard and this was my first try. If the camera is faulty, I will send if off for reliable repair. From this forum, I note that Sherri gets rave reviews. Why didn't I test it sooner? I am 67 years old with a full time job as an aerospace engineer at the company you all know, and I have full time rheumatoid arthritis. As the dark season arrives in Seattle, when one only sees the sun, if ever, on weekends, I look forward to retirement and more photo opportunities. I also check the Canon FD forum several times a day, but they, while very valuable, don't provide nearly the volume nor the attitude, not to say venom on occasion, that makes the Leica forum such a delight. My only other comment is regarding whether I really have to barter for some repair work by providing several hundred squid? Well, Puget Sound reputedly has the world's largest octupi; I don't know about squid and whether I can substitue gooeyducks. I may be back to find out about feasible methods of shipping such a volume of sea life.

 

Thanks, everyone

Yah, I finally bit the bullet and bought the Ablon. Pain, it was. In fact the whole camera is a pain with its itty bitty rangefinder, and viewer, and having to use an Imarect for the other lenses, and such. Only solace is that it takes such damn fine pictures. All best.

Easy - you have two choices.<p>1) Slip a business card or similar between the back of the body and the shutter and put the film in behind it, no trimming required.<p>2) Extend the thin part of the leader by about 15 sprocket holes and load the way Oskar intended you to.<p>There's no need to mess with "T" etc unless you want to be absolutely, positively sure the film is in the gate properly. You soon skip this part after you've got the hang of it. Make sure the film is running correctly according to the little diagram inside the camera, and tension it slightly with the rewind knob after closing the baseplate.