OT: digital prosumer cams

I know many of you use a digital 4/5 MP camera on the side and I

feel it is time that I step back into that arena (I used a Olympus

way back when, later a Canon G1).

 

From what I gather, Canon seems to be the best game in town. My

question is really if anyone know of any major quality differences

in the output between the S50 and the new G5?

 

I want some manual freedom, RAW, CF card, decent zoom, and as little

shutter lag as digitally possible. I think the smaller size of the

S50 is a nice feature, and I would like to be able to hand it over

to other family member for complete auto-everyting operability.

 

I know Olympus and Sony makes nice digicams, but I don't see any

point of going down that road. The new Nikon 5400 might be an

alternative, but no RAW there for now...

 

Any [user] comments?

Patrick,

 

Canon has an edge IMO with digital technology. No major reviews yet on the G5, but intial customer reactions seem to positive. The G5 gives you the ability to use accessory lense, and flashes. The S50 (I own the S30) has size and flexibilty that rivals the G series.

 

The question that I would ask you if I were on the other side of the counter is. why are you looking for Raw? (BTW Olympus has the C505 that supports RAW). If it were for "darkroom" control then RAW is the way to go.

I agree with Chip about Canon. They are whiping the floor with everyone right now.

 

Quality wise the G3 and S45 were very similar although the G3 had the better lens to go with the same sensor system.

 

I imaging it's similar for the G5 and S50 assuming my memory in the above it correct.

A side note to yesterday's contentious thread. My new G5 DOES have a noticeable

shatter lag when it's in Manual or Custom mode, probably as much as a half second.

In Auto mode, it seems to fit Canon's specs of 0.1 second. But the lag is there, & an

important component if you're really truly shooting 'decisive moment' photography.

The G5 is a marvel, & I cannot be effusive enough, but Canon has not eliminated the

lag yet, at least not in the G5...

Patrick wrote: "and as little shutter lag as digitally possible"

 

Then don't buy anything less than a 1D/1Ds or you'll be disappointed -- all of the current crop of Digi P&S cams have very long lags. This can be mitigated somewhat by prefocusing or using the MF mode.

 

Carl wrote: "Quality wise the G3 and S45 were very similar although the G3 had the better lens to go with the same sensor system"

 

I compared both and ended up buying the S45 because I felt it produced a slightly better image overall, but was significantly smaller in physical size. Frankly, and IMVHO, the G2 produced a better image than the G3 I tested. (This is not to say the G3 is bad, because it isn't -- More to the point, the S45 is quite excellent.) I have not tested the S50, but from what I've heard there is very little noteable gain over the S45 -- in effect the extra 1MP doesn't do much for the images. I have printed my S45 images at 11x14 and they are very good. From what I've seen, the S400 produces essentially as good an image as the S45 and is smaller yet.

 

All FWIW,

I had an S45 for a while, and I've looked at the G3 and the S50 extensively (I haven't seen a G5 yet). There is little difference in the pictures between an S45 and a G3, that's for sure, and I would guess the same between the S50 and the G5. It's easier to use lens accessories with the G5 though, and the lens itself is at least a bit faster, if nothing else. I'm not sure I would agree that the Canon digicams are any better than the Nikon, Olympus or Sony and other digicams of equivalent resolution. I eventually resisted buying into another digicam (as opposed to a DSLR) after I got rid of the S45. They are all rather limiting for someone used to a good film SLR system (especially if you really want to use them manually). BTW, I bought the S45 on the "top picks" recommendation of a very popular digicam review site. My conclusion from that experience is that they don't really know what they are talking about, and their reviews seem more based on spec sheets than real use in the field.

o my gosh -- i think there is really no comparison between the g5

and s50. the g5 has that wonderful fast lens -- f2-3 versus f2.8

-5 over the range. the lens speed is very important to avoid high

ISOs, the bugbear of digi p&s cameras. the g5 also has many

more custom features and far better manual control. there are

lots of reviews -- just type "canon g5 review" into google. i also

feel like the construction of the g5 is infinitely better than the s50.

it has a hot shoe. its body shape is also easier to handhold

without shake.

 

the g5 also allows use of filters, shades and wide/tele

accessories.

 

in may ways, the g5 is a real professional digital product at a very

cheap $725 price. if you are coming from leica, don't even think

about the s50. go for the g5.

 

but read the reviews!!

 

p.s. as for the shutter lag. it truly is 1/10th of a second in p mode.

and less than that if you half press the release to get a

shutter/exposure lock before firing. if you preset focus and

exposure (i.e. trap shoot as i do with my leicas), there is

absolutely no discernable lag. better than my hexar was in this

respect.

Does the G5 have a standard hotshoe?

Jeff, yes there is a standard hot shoe, and the EX flashes work

on it. A 220EX almost works in terms of size/balance (like a Metz

on an M).

 

More importantly, you can fire studio strobes with it. I use a radio

sender on one. It will flip you out when you see what good

lighting does with the camera shot this way.

I looked at the G5 very closely when shopping for a new digicam recently. It fits very well in the hand and gives excellent quality shots.

 

I bought a different camera but that takes nothing away from the G5.

 

I think you really have to look at your intended use. Then you have to try the camera in hand and operate the controls. Will this camera do what I intend and can I operate the controls smoothly and quickly.

 

I found you can look at reviews all day long. You can talk to users about their experiences. You can examine shots for excessive CA or noise levels but it really comes down to whether you can get the shot that you want.

 

The quality of shots from these little digicams really surprises me. I have found it so easy to print an excellent color 8x10.

 

If you haven't already done so go down to you local store and handle the current crop. I'm sure you will find something that will fill your needs.

<i>More importantly, you can fire studio strobes with it. I use a radio sender on one.</i><p>

 

Thanks, Marc. I don't use flash that much, but when I do, it's always with a remote, even on a bracket, I don't like the cords flying around...

I found the the lens on a friend's G3 to be much sharper in the corners than that on a

S50 which I ended up returning. I also found the S50's size somewhat awkward. It was

more difficult to handle than the G3, but was still too big and heavy to easily fit in a

jacket pocket.

The colors of the G5 (as well as G3) are too saturated and the

autofocus is very slow.

If your hands are not too bigs, try the Sony DSC-V1 which is very

fast (faster than the Leica Digilux1).

Resolution is impressive.

The greens are a bit excessive but ity's easy to correct in

Photoshop.

But the battery is too small for intersive use actually.

The problem with Sony equipment and batteries is that Sony don't seem to understand Lithium battery technology all that well and have a less than stellar reputation for dealing with the resulting problems. Believe me, I have a lot of Sony kit and it's very well designed and built but the battery technology lets it down badly. Something to be aware of when buying.

Comments like "the color is to saturated" are all realitive with

these cameras. The Canons have settings in the menus that

allow adjustment of the saturation levels. Focusing speed is

also realitive to what features are set to function while focusing.

 

The S-50 is small enough to place in a pocket, but it is not

particularly light having a metal body. There is some softness at

the corners, at least compared to the Contax TVSD with the

same focal length zoom. But the TVSD doesn't offer RAW, so

exposures have to be more accurate.

LCT notes " colors too saturated" in the G5. Now that's a first. Where did that opinion

come from? The colors can be set almost infinitely, there are multiple white balance

settings & there's no excuse for obtaining colors that are not exactly what you intend.

Sounds like another 'forum' opinion from someone who doesn't own the camera.

 

Honestly, folks, I remain amazed, all in all, at the general negative tones that have run

through these threads in the last three days. Many many people are speaking in tones

of great authority who neither own the G5 nor have even handled one. One of us

played with one for an hour, & then gave it a general condemnation. I've personally

owned (& exclusively shot Leicas) for over 20 years -- the only exception to that has

been work with a couple Hasselblads I own -- and I have become a believer in this

new camera.

 

There are several excellent reviews available (contrary to what someone else states).

Image quality is astounding. Software controls are robust. Heft & ergonomics are

good. I cd be picky & describe what I dislike -- but on a scale of 1 to 10, this new

little digicam is a 9. Unfortunately, I'd rate my old TTL at about an 8...

 

And as I've said previously, image quality at or below 11x16 inch prints rivals our

favorite Leica lens. Marc noted edge distortion etc.: I agree, but this falls into that

category I described above--picky. The benefits far far outweight the minor faults of

the new Canon...

The only reason I'm even debating to get the S50 vs. the G5 is the size of the package - I would like to have a digital camera which offers as much manual flexibility as possible, in a platform that is even smaller than the Leica M setup.

 

The advantage of having a high quality (I know the shutter lag issue will be with us for quite some time on these models) is that one can shoot lots of pix for little $$$, and by that try different/creative angles, perspectives etc. Just try and fire away. One can always review/delete...

 

I don't expect it to be a Leica M when it comes to handling and shooting style.

 

My basic question was really if the S50 uses the same digital technology as the G5 and if it produces pix that are as good or very close to the G5 (which I expect to lead the prosumer pack for now)?

 

Cheers,

Patrick, having gone thru this debate with myself in the last 3 months, the conclusion was canon 10D. Why, it's elementary dear Watson. First you are going to spend $+500 on the S50, anything above ASA 100 is really noisy, it can't do wide angle well, the lens is lacking, distortion in the viewfinder etc. Ok your next choice is to go and get a sony 707 (whatever) or Minolta Dimage 7HI all about $1000. Again the sensors are noisy, limited to 28 mm in Minolta and 35 in Sony, all have video screens (they suck).

 

OK so now your at $1000 and still not statisfied, $1400 gets you the 10D, buy a good lens, you are done with it. Why throw money away? Quick overview, I have 24mm to 600mm covered, when I buy my 50F1.4 the available light will be fully covered. FYI asa 1600 is useable in this camera, better than asa 800 print film.

 

Good Luck.

Gerry

<<A side note to yesterday's contentious thread. My new G5 DOES have a noticeable shatter lag when it's in Manual or Custom mode, probably as much as a half second. In Auto mode, it seems to fit Canon's specs of 0.1 second. But the lag is there, & an important component if you're really truly shooting 'decisive moment' photography. The G5 is a marvel, & I cannot be effusive enough, but Canon has not eliminated the lag yet, at least not in the G5...

 

-- Patrick Garner>>

 

Apology accepted ;>)

Gerry, I agree that the 10D is tempting, very tempting (hey, it costs less than what I just sold the 75'lux for...) but the form factor is too large for what I want to do - a digicam that one carries everywhere (along with the two kids I'm constantly carrying...)

 

Cheers,

Patrick, you may want to look up the sensor size between the

S-50 and the G5. I don't know if the G5 sensor is a bit larger, but

if it is then I would seriously consider it over the S-50 IF image

quality outweighs the size consideration.

 

Sensor size counts a lot when it comes to tonal transitions. If it

didn't, then any 5 meg P&S could produce as nice a digital

capture as a D1-X...which, trust me, they can't.

 

If you decide on a S-50 e-mail me and I'll sell you my brand new

one for $375 if you wish, and honor the USA warranty.

 

Reason? I switched to a Contax TVSD.

I don't know about the S50, but I've been using an S30 for about a year, and within its

limitations I think it works really well. The G cameras are a lot bigger, and harder to

carry around with you everywhere. The S30 will go into a pocket in a pinch, but it's a

bit too fat to be comfortable.

 

I've gotten 8x10 prints from the S30 that are remarkably good, and not only because

the subject is my son. :)

 

http://kvdpsu.org/paris-2003/

 

Gives you an idea of what you can do.

Marc,

I am also considering buying the G5 or contax tvsd. Since you have switched to the contax tvsd, i assumed that you considered the tvsd is better than the G5. Can you please let us know in what areas are the tvsd better? Many thanks.

marc wrote an excellent and typically helpful review of the TVSD, comparing it to the comparable canon offering. you can see his work, with very interesting test shots at www.contaxinfo.com click onto the forum, click onto digital cameras, click onto TVSD thread, scroll down. i bought the TVSD on marc's advice and love it. i also own a 10D which is superb, but a different kettle of fish.

Patrick,

 

I´m really tempted by the Canon G5, which BTW is why I put my Tri-Elmar up for sale as I don´t use it anyway.

 

>>And as I've said previously, image quality at or below 11x16 inch prints rivals our favorite Leica lens

 

This is a statement I really cannot believe. Currently I have an Olympus C-4040Z (4 MP) digicam and have yet to get a really good 8x10 from it. There is color fringing, the dynamic range isn´t all that great and the lens shows terrible barrel distorsion at the wide end.

 

I´m sure the G5 improves on a lot of these issues (and allows me to shoot in RAW mode), but I can´t imagine that it is good enough for 11x14 prints that compare to what I get from my Leicas and Nikons.

 

Carsten

 

http://www.cabophoto.com/