Nikkor 75 or Schneider Super Symmar XL 80

I searched through all the opinions on this site relating to the

above two lenses, but could not find answers to these two

questions. First, for those who have used the Schneider Super

Symmar XL 80, have you come across a situation where you wished the

lens went down to f/45? The lack of f/45 concerns me; however, I

have never used such a wide angle lens on 4x5 so perhaps it is

unnecessary at this focal length. Schneider left it out for some

reason. Second, I've noticed the image circle for the Nikkor is

rated at 200 mm at f/16 (see

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.xls). Does

anyone know what it is at f/22?

 

I'm almost ready to make my purchase of one of these lenses, and

your responses will help me greatly.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

...Wade...

Wide lenses are much easier to focus (they tend to present a darker image on the ground glass) if you can open them up to f.4.5 even though you won't likely shoot at that aperature. The SS XL 80mm goes down to f/4.5 as does the Nikon. I've used the SS XL 80mm and it is a very sharp lens.

Doug,

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear on the fstop issue. I'm more concerned that the Schneider Super Symmar XL stops at f/32 rather than f/45. Have you come across a situation where you wanted to use f/45 (i.e., f/32 didn't offer the needed depth of field).

 

Thanks,

 

...Wade...

To me, the main differences between these lenses are in characteristics you haven't asked about. The Super-Symmar-XL series has the advantages of lower weight and smaller size. The Nikkor-SW series (and the similar series of other manufacturers, e.g, the various Super-Angulons and Grandagons) has the advantage of less illumination falloff off-axis.

 

Unless you are interested in really extreme near/far photos, such as simultaneously focusing on a small flower and distant objects, you probably won't find f45 to be necessary. With my use of a lens in this focal length range with 4x5 film, I have never needed to stop down past f32.

But the correct use of movements enables the LF photographer to get that near flower and distant object in focus simutaneously with the lens wide open, so that's surely not so much of an issue.

 

Now if you mean the near flower and the top and bottom of the distant skyscraper that's a different matter!

I haven't used the Schneider lens. But on more than one occasion I've used my Nikkor 75 mm with an aperture smaller than f32. The issue isn't so much the vertical relief of distant objects as it is the vertical relief of near objects when using tilt. If you would like to have the full vertical height of a nearby rock or flower appear to be sharp as well as distant objects, then you will need to stop down your lens.

 

I have to admit that I don't understand the weight controversy. The Nikkor 75 mm f4.5 is a rather small lens when compared with my 360 APO-Artar and Fuji 600 mm telephoto. I guess it's a matter of what you're used to using.

 

Best wishes.

"...Have you come across a situation where you wanted to use f/45..."

 

 

No.

 

Also, the Scheider is lighter and has a larger image circle.

According to the chart at www.schneideroptics.com and the photo on the B&H website, it does go down to f/45. I see that the "Specifications" table on the B&H website indicates f/32 as the minimum, as does a table at largeformatphotography.info.

 

I'm inclined to believe Schneider and the photo, but it should not be hard to determine which information is correct.

 

I think manufacturers consider the resolution-degrading effects of diffraction and only provide f-stop settings down to the smallest aperture they determine will still provide "acceptable" results for the lens and film format in question. All other things being equal (e.g., print size), the larger the format, the smaller the aperture you can get away with. This is why lenses for the 35mm format never seem to go below f/16 or f/22. Since the largest usable format for the 80 XL is 5x7, it may be that that the smallest available aperture provides "acceptable" results only for that format and not for the smaller 4x5. And, of course, different people have different ideas of what is "acceptable."

 

Here is a thread with a nice involved discussion of such matters:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000WNn

My SS80XL goes down to f45, and beyond (past the scale) about one more stop. Beyond f45 works, but probably doesn't meet Schneider's design specs.

A 75 mm lens at f/32 has a hyperfocal distance of about 1.76 meters (using a circle of confusion of diameter 0.1 mm). At f/45, it is 1.25 meters. Since everything from half the hyperfocal distance to infinity would be in focus, it would seem that one would only rarely need to stop down as far as f/45.

With the Nikkor 75mm, if I tilt through a foreground that is around 1 foot away, I often need to use f/45 if I want more than a moderately wide band of sharpness passing through my background matter at infinity. I think the sharpest parts of the images I have shot at f/45 are a little soft compared to f/16 and f/22, but sometimes its worth the trade off.

I just took a more thorough look at the Scneider website and sure enough they state a minimum aperture of f/45. Cool!!! Given it's lighter weight and larger image circle, I'm definitely leaning towards the SS80XL; however, I'm still going to do a little more research before making a final decision since this is some serious money. Now I just need to save up for a 65 mm lens.

 

Thanks everyone,

 

...Wade...