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shijan

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  1. Sorry, i don't have any further interest to proof or deny any things here as well as respond to rodeo_joe|1's and digitaldog's provocations. I shared my workflow in details. It was developed during many years and tested enough. If you have other workflow and if it works for you - feel free to use your own workflow and be happy. This workflow FAQ (shared here and on many other forums) was a part of my upcoming modular camera scanning system hardware project. It will be manufactured in small batches same as my other existing hardware, and will be available to anyone who interested in fast and quality 35mm camera film scanning. Stay tuned...
  2. I didn't work with Nikon scanners, so i can't deny or confirm. It may illustrate that Nikon scan have quality enough factory input ICC profiles. Who knows, maybe factory ICC profile where simply generated by Nikon based on same IT8.7 slide target. It is also unknown yet how exactly you calibrate and process images. It always could be hidden user mistake, or mistake caused by some uncommon tech behave provided by scanner manufacturer for unknown reason. For example there is a huge known problem with original ICC profiles from Nikon scanners. You can read details in this article. Scanning Colour Negative Film Using ICC Profiles "It occurred to me that Nikon Scan installs a bunch of profiles for the scanner but they don’t show up in Photoshop or other imaging applications. I tracked down why this was. Nikon had altered the metadata in the header to make them not appear to be valid. Specifically, they changed the “type” from “scnr” (a scanner or input profile type) to “nkpf” (a non-standard value). If you take a hex editor (or even vi) you can just find the value “nkpf” in the first few lines of the file and change it to “scnr” and you will get access to use the profile in any application of your choosing." Lucky there is a download link for fixed (hex-edited) Nikon Scan input ICC profiles: Dropbox - Nikon Scan 4.0.3 Original Hex Edited Profiles - Simplify your life I already post side be side examples and tests that illustrate difference between camera original input profile and custom calibrated camera in post #104 Film Negative Invert and Processing in L* Gamma FAQ , but same as all other useful info it disappeared in this "discussion". It also was well visible difference in images made with original and custom-made input profile from Minolta 5400II scanner.
  3. Very nice, but from start i don't read those "lyrics" written by some random other people and that you periodically take from your "quotes list" and repeat. Looking at your background now it is easy to understand the source of all your strange behave here. As i mentioned, i learned from few of your videos 10 years ago or so. It helped me to understand difference between "Convert to Profile" and "Assign Profile" and how color spaces transformed one into another during color management. It was not something special, just one of the many videos made by many other people i watched that evening. I just remember that low-fi userpic with dog and monitor :) All those basic tutorials and info where useful for start, but i moved further, done a lot of own research and tests, discover a lot of interesting things... I just thought by mistake that you are more open minded in real life discussions, but not the one who deny things without any reason instead of critical thinking, and speaks like he represent some collective mind opinion of all users on this forum and Luminous Landscape as well. So during 3 decades you never ever think try calibrate scanner with IT8.7 target and see it it helps with negative scans, only because someone wrote in some software review that "it will not work"? Great! Guess all this time you also only used scanner software to invert negatives because in manual it was written that this is the only way how it should be done... But ok, instead you can measure something with Delta E, and explain in your video lessons that it is very important to do every day.
  4. So again. Just someone's opinion in advertisement article. Dudes quickly review that crappy SilverFast software for repayment. Discover AutoLevels-like tool specially developed for Negatives in that software. Made conclusion that there is no need to calibrate scanner because AutoLevels can fix it all. By the way, i read that article long time ago (it is not too many articles to read about IT8.7 film targets), but it doesn't stop me to do my own test and try to calibrate my scanner. And i was really happy with results i got from film negatives with scanner calibrated in that way. Seems your opinion never based on personal tests or works. You even speak instantly with other people's worlds. Did you personally scan film on both camera and scanner? Did you you personally do some tests to confirm or deny any ideas shared in this thread? Did you personally try to calibrate scanner IT8/7 slide film target and compare? Do you personally somehow related to film scanning and processing at all? No you don't. No one have right to say "it is wrong" based on random article that have no real tests or examples. So why i talking with at all?
  5. And here we go again.... I never suggest to create ICC profile specially for a color neg. I suggest to create ICC profile based on IT8.7 slide film for a camera/scanner. It is a normal calibration of hardware. We calibrate camera + light source system based on IT8.7 (or any other possible) target and measured reference data provided for that target. And yes, that target is printed on slide film, because there is no any other option. And yes, that slide film may have some tiny color casts. And it is normal, because that slide film target was measured by manufacturer and provided reference data for this particular target includes all these color casts and variations. That colourphil.co.uk website is down, so here is a backup for that article Scanner Profiling Theory "Colour Negatives There are no IT8 targets available for these, for the simple reason that profiling negatives doesn't work! This is partly due to the vast array of negative film types with differing 'orange masks', together with inconsistent lighting and processing. One reason for scanning negatives is to archive old film. The fact that it is 'old' means that film stock is simply no longer available to photograph IT8 colour tagets." If someone posted somewhere on internet that "No IT8 targets printed on negatives available - so profiling negatives doesn't work", it doesn't automatically should be a pure true. I agree that No IT8 targets printed on negatives available. But it doesn't mean that we can't use IT8.7 printed on slide film to camera/scanner, and then scan any film negatives on that scanner that will use that custom-made input profile. In any case final correction for negative (or formally profiling) will be done by RGB AutoLevels (or by Manual RGB Levels adjustment). It is also not too clear what really means there "profiling negatives doesn't work" We can shoot on negative film the photo of ColorChecker or reflective printed IT8.7 target and use it as calibration for same film roll instead of doing AutoLevels for each frame. Negatives in film industry processed in this way, because for film it is near impossible to manually process each frame, same as we do with photos.
  6. And another little FAQ about using Iridient Developer to export camera scanned film negative to L* gamma for further invert and processing. - Switch to LittleCMS and Highest Quality in preferences. - Open RAW file in Iridient Developer. - "Histogram, clip warnings, preview color space": Set ICC profile to the same ICC profile into which you expect to export final image. (In this guide i use custom-made ICC profile ProPhotoRGB with L* gamma) - "Exp" -> "Edit": click "Reset All". For some RAW file types you also may need to uncheck "Use Embedded Curve" This will reset custom contrast curve and will allow to export original "flat" uncorrected image, as it "seen" by digital sensor. - "Detail" tab: Reset adjustments or use lowest possible Anti Aliasing and Chroma Noise Reduction settings. When it goes to film negative scans, these settings need subjective tests for each specific camera. AA and CNR and Sharpness have strong affect to film negative appearance during processing. - "Lens" tab: Keep lens correction disabled until you really feel that you need it. - "Out" tab: Select ICC profile to export (ProPhotoRGB with L* gamma) -------- Some advanced options: - For one click batch processing you need to save settings as preset and use "Batch Window" instead of main UI. - "Color" tab: "Input Profile". This allow you to set your own custom-made ICC profile instead of camera default profile as input. This is useful if you calibrate your system based on IT8.7 target and generate your own custom-made input ICC profile. - "Out" tab: "Disable Color Management Processing" This will globally disable color management and also ignore output ICC profile settings selected in "Out" tab. This mode required when you export scanned IT8.7 target image that will be used to generate custom-made input ICC profile in other apps ( for example in Rough Profiler ArgyllCMS GUI, software perfiles color ICC IT8 colorchecker, fotografia cientifica - Jose Pereira )
  7. By the way, why you decide that your camera outputs 120 fps to monitor. Live View usually outputs 25-30 FPS (maybe up to 60 in some cameras as an option). Next it connected to HDMI monitor that may have internal refresh rate 60Hz, 75Hz or sometimes 120Hz. Monitor refresh rate is not related to actual camera output framerate at all. Also Monitor or TV panels itself may have internal noise reduction, temporal or frame interpolation or other consumer "enchancers" that suppress digital noise.
  8. Live View designed for quick preview. It is unknown how image debayered inside camera for Live View and what post processing and noise reduction applied there for Live View. Also 120 fps framerate and monitor lag may visually smooth a lot of things. I can speak only for my camera, but i also don't see clear "dancing" digital noise at 100% magnification in Live View. Too bad Fujifilm cameras can't zoom more that 100%. I see it only on final processed images. Is it so complicated to shoot 2-3 frames, process them in raw editor without additional noise reduction, open them in image editor as layers, add Invert and AutoLevels, magnify to 200-300%, and hide/show one by one to confirm or deny if there really some digital noise or not? Just a a basic visual compare. Maybe in your camera is really noise free, or maybe not. At least it just may help other people to select better camera in future.
  9. Ha ha. I was too hurry and there was a mistake in understanding of RedCine-X. When we activate "Bypass IPP2 Output Transform", we disable color management at all. So exported files are NOT transformed to selected color space/gamma settings, but always exported to plain RedWideGamut/Log3G10. It is very strange why export options selection in RedCine-X where not deactivated in this non color managed scenario. So partially it is a bug in RedCine-X. So updated RedCine-X workflow may look like this: 1. Turn off sharpness in Preferences. Not tested yet how it affect image from RED cameras, but as i describe earlier, additional sharpness cause some artifacts amplified with AutoLevels. 2. Set Tone Mapping and Highlight Rolloff effects to NONE 3. Adjust ISO or Exposure. 4. Turn everything else OFF or set it to default "D" 5. In Export Settings i select TIFF, ProPhoto and Linear gamma. Also in Tiff Setup i select custom-made ProPhoto gamma 1.0 ICC profile from my list. That ICC profile will be embedded in exported image, so i don't need to add it manually later in image editor. (Probably need somehow to save settings preset because Tiff Setup reset selected settings after every export) 6. Export image. 7. Next i open it in image editor, Convert to ProPhoto L* gamma ICC profile, do Invert, AutoLevels, add some Lightness, pick Grey Point, add Contrast preset LUT. All the same as described earlier in my FAQ and video tutorials.
  10. On other forum user jzagaja shared RAW film scan sample made with his RED camera setup! So i attempt to fit RedCine-X RAW editor to current workflow: 1. I turn off sharpness in Preferences. Not tested yet how it affect image from RED cameras, but as i describe earlier, additional sharpness cause some artifacts amplified with AutoLevels. 2. I activate "Bypass IPP2 Output Transform" to avoid additional intermediate Tone Mapping and Highlight rolloff effects. 3. I set ISO to 800, because probably it is native ISO for that camera. Here i guess you should experiment by yourself to find the best ISO vs camera Exposure ratio. 4. I turn everything else OFF or set it to default "D" 5. In Export Settings i select TIFF, ProPhoto and Linear gamma. Also in Tiff Setup i select custom-made ProPhoto gamma 1.0 ICC profile from my list. That ICC profile will be embedded in exported image, so i don't need to add it manually later in image editor. (Probably need somehow to save settings preset because Tiff Setup reset selected settings after every export) 6. Export image. 7. Next you need to open it in image editor, Convert to ProPhoto L* gamma ICC profile, do Invert, AutoLevels, add some Lightness, pick Grey Point, add Contrast preset LUT. All the same as described earlier in my FAQ and video tutorials. Now it looks like real film: There are also two possible mistakes in that source raw image: 1. There is a plenty of unused space on the right, so during shooting it is better to adjust shutter speed to fill that space and as result get less digital noise artifacts. 2. WB was set to film orange frame instead of light source. As i illustrate earlier WB adjustment like this produce unwanted color artifacts after invert. It is unknown how exactly image was scanned, so if C M Y color glass filters where used to compensate that orange mask it probably could be no problem. But i personally didn't test that optical orange mask compensation method yet.
  11. Ed_Ingold, just shoot 2-3 frames of same image and check under magnification which parts of image structure are moving (digital noise) and which are not moving (real film grain). It is not that huge amount of noise as ISO 3200 (4 stops underesposed) or higher, so you may not see it so easy in live view, especially on low contrast and orange unprocessed film. The amount of noise depends of camera sensor model and megapixel amount, so it is impossible to find universal noise-free limit for all cameras. Some noise is always there, but overall that tiny amount of noise is not the biggest problem. Image usually downscaled to smaller size, and all that noise is gone, same as tiny dust particles and tiny scratches.
  12. You provided links to some legacy workflow that use linear_RIMM-RGB_v4.icc and generate confusions during my tests. linear_RIMM-RGB_v4.icc appears very specific cLUT-based ICC profile that works only in Photoshop. Other apps ignore it or show image incorrectly because can't read normally that ICC profile type. This cause even more confusion. So dudes from color.org who probably build those profiles made them compatible only with Photoshop for purpose or by mistake. I done my tests and see no any difference between image converted to linear_RIMM-RGB_v4.icc and between image normally exported directly to ProPhotoRGB with Linear gamma. Based on this i simply reject this method from discussion as legacy and useless for workflow discussed in this thread as well as useless for modern ACR versions. But you keep screaming and ask for some measurements, proofs and keep assign some imaginary options to me personally. I have no idea what you want to measure with your deltaE in this situation, what should it proof and why is it suddenly became so important to you. I also have no idea how is it possible to be so non flexible and react so emotionally to simple tech things or mistakes. Tested something. It works - OK. Tested something. It don't works - Reject. New tests based on new data. Don't works again - Reject again. Someone have new info that proofs the opposite. He do the tests that explain how it works in new way. Now i accept it and see my mistake. This is how things done. If you or someone else somewhere proof that that linear_RIMM-RGB_v4.icc make sense and works in some special way - i can easy accept it and use it. It is just a tools. It is not personal or emotional at all.
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