Buying a Point and Shoot Camera

I agree strongly with the T-4 assessment. I carry one in my briefcase, my wife carries one in her purse and each of my children have one for their bookbags or backpacks. Great little camera, with a definite cult following. Cheap too.

I've got a Pentax IQzoom 38-90 WR, which has been on the market about 4 years now. I've never been particularly happy with its autofocus, and the poor parallax compensation on Macro mode; its always cutting off tops and bottoms. Pictures are acceptably sharp. Last but not least, The rubber shutter release cover fell off, rendering the Water resi- stance feature useless. Repair cost US110.00, because of the way it's designed the whole front case needs replacement.

My Dad's got a Ricoh P&S, fits in his pocket and takes great pictures. Check it out.

A short comment about the features of the Ricoh R1: It does not have a spot meter, as is stated above. The feature Vasu Ramanujam seems to be referring to is the spot auto- focus, forcing the camera to use the center autofocus point, instead of the wide auto- focus (there are three autofocus zones, selected automatically). I tested the camera as follows: I photographed a greycard with a small white area in the middle, using slide film, once with spot autofocus, once without. There was no difference.

There is a lot of great information here. The P&S sections are probably among the most visited. Certainly, this is where the market is.

I thought I would add a few comments on the question of carrying a camera with you all the time, everywhere.

This seems like a great idea if you are obsessed with photography. My Dad subscribed to this philosophy. He carried movie camera, poloroid, 35mm, and the latest Kodak consumer format around all the time. We always joked that he was missing his life. He never knew what he'd done, until he got home and could look at the pictures.

It worked for him. When he passed away a few years ago, he had disc cameras, several polaroids, movie cameras, video cassette recorders, point & shoots, ad nauseum. He loved taking pictures. For him, the picture was even more important than the event.

I got my first camera when I was in the second grade. I've still got pictures that I took with that camera. I even won my first photo contest with a vacation photo taken at Plymouth Planatation with that camera.

I got that camera, in part, to mimic my Dad, and in part to defend myself against always being photographed. With my own camera in hand, I could roam around and take pictures, and use this as an excuse for not posing. I was exposing kodachrome 8mm movie film without a meter by the age of 12.

When my own kids were small, I remembered how I'd thought my Dad had missed a lot by being so obsessed with taking pictures at every event, and I started to be very selective about when I would get a camera out. I sure didn't take it everywhere. In many cases I wanted to enjoy the moment, unencumbered by photo equipment.

I don't regret this decision. The memory of the activity is still valuable, even without a photo to help set it off. There are some places for pictures, and there are other places where pictures can intrude. You may have a more enjoyable life if you can figure out how to properly balance your hobby against the other important issues and people in your orbit.

I have a Ricoh R1 as my "ski trip" camera. Works great. Can even operate it with my ski gloves on. Clips nicely to my ski pants. I've got pictures that no one else in our group has. My only complaint is the lack of even a little zoom lens capability. I'm considering a Canon ELPH as a small, easy to carry, R1 alturnitive. I am concerned about the new technology that the ELPH uses.

I've long felt the need for a compact camera that would fit in my pocket, but I've been put off by the classic point & shoots with their plastic construction, lack of controls, and primitive meters. I've read the high marks that have been posted for the Yashica T-4/T-4 Super, and I've been tempted - but I always come back to my unwillingness to buy a camera for my own use that won't at least allow me to shift the program and apply some exposure compensation.

I've toyed with the idea of a Hexar, but the Hexar really isn't a pocket camera , so I've never followed through and bought one.

I know that Foto Magazin says that the Yashica T-4 beats the Contax T2 and the Nikon 35 Ti in their resolution and contrast tests. I happen to be one of the folks who believes that this kind of testing presents an over simplification of the complex issues associated with evaluating camera performance. The T-4 may be very capable, but it isn't something that I want for my style of use.

Recently I've engaged in extensive correspondence with Barry Pehlman, another netizen. Barry's positive experiences with the Hexar and with his Nikon 28 Ti, coupled with the fact that the price of the Nikon 35 Ti has recently dropped to $649.95 (with US Warranty, leather case, and battery) at both B&H, and a local store here in Dayton, pushed me to purchase a Nikon 35 Ti.

This is a neat camera. It does not have a true manual capability (like the Hexar), but it does allow program shift in many lighting situations, and it allows compensation in 1/3 stop increments up to +/- 2 stops in all lighting situations. It has aperture priority and time exposure, in addition to program and flexible program (the term Nikon uses for the program shift feature on this camera). Aperture priority allows you to set the aperture in half stop increments between f/2.8 and f/22.

It has a 6 zone 3D matrix meter, and it uses the meter and the distance information in its flash algorithm. The manual touts the fact that this technology was brought in from the high end SLR product line. (Frankly, my tests indicate that it really isn't any smarter than the on camera flash in an A2E. If you want decent flash pictures, you have to think about what you're doing - whether you're using a Nikon, a Canon, or a Yashica T-4. :-))

There are three words to describe my feeling about this camera. I LOVE IT!! It fits in my pocket. I can take it with me anywhere, even where cameras aren't welcomed. People aren't intimidated when I bring it up and shoot. I get more smiles. If I'd known it would be this much fun to have this sort of camera along, I would have bought one a long time ago.

The meter is extremely accurate. The lens is sharp and the slides that I get with this camera are beautiful. It is a great compliment to my extensive EOS system. I find myself sticking the 35 Ti in my pocket and grabbing an SLR with a medium telephoto lens when I go out for recreational shooting. It is a lot lighter than taking a second SLR and lens along - even if it is not as flexible.

It is tough. Unbeknownst to me, it fell out of my pocket one morning. When I got out of the car, I tried to close the car door, and it woudn't close. I tried a couple of times before looking to see what was blocking the door. It was the 35 Ti in its leather case. I picked it up and checked it out immediately. No damage. No sign of damage. Just like nothing had happened. It functioned perfectly too. A plastic pocket camera would have been in a couple of pieces.

You can override the auto focus and set focus manually if you wish. Or you can set focus to infinity. Auto focus seems to be very accurate based on the slides that I've gotten back, even with relatively small subjects. It will focus as close as 1.3 feet.

The viewfinder tends to be forgiving. I would actually prefer a more accurate viewfinder. The frame in the viewfinder changes with the focus setting to try to offset parallax.

Every person who saw this camera up close during some recent social shooting commented on what a neat antique camera the 35 Ti was. This impression was conveyed because of the wierd mechanical chronometers that Nikon chose to use instead of a detailed LCD panel. On the bright side, these chronometers aren't going to die after 5 years (as will reportedly occur with most LCD panels). I didn't care for the chronometers at first, but they've grown on me and I like them now. There is one for distance, one for aperture, one for compensation, and one to indicate the number of frames you've shot. The mechanical display is also used when you activate the self timer, and when the film is being rewound.

You can illuminate the viewfinder and the chronometers if you want to. The viewfinder is automatically illuminated in low light.

The camera has several custom functions that allow you to customize the camera for your own habits. You can switch from 3D matrix meter to center weighted average meter, for example. You can turn off the flash permanently if you wish. You can change the display in the view finder so that aperture is displayed there instead of shutter speed. There are a few others that I don't remember right now as I write this in real time on the comment page.

The camera has a frame mask for panorama shots. This seems kind of silly to me, since you can crop a full frame 35mm negative for panorama if you want to. There is a tripod mount. There is no provision for off camera flash.

My only gripe about this camera has to do with the control of the on camera flash. If you are in program mode and the camera decides that flash should be used, but you disagree, you either have to cancel it with a custom function (which is a pain), or you have to cancel it by holding a little button down (also a pain). If you want to do slow synch flash, the manual recommends that you hold the "anytime" flash button down and that this will allow shutter speeds to extend to as long as 1/4 second. It is stupid to recommend that someone press a button down on the camera body during a 1/4 second exposure, in my view. It will also slow synch in aperture priority, so this is a better option if you want to try to balance your flash and ambient light. In the 28 Ti they fixed this problem by putting in a little sliding three position switch that you don't have to hold down. Much smarter idea.

This is a great little camera. Very rugged. beautifully manufactured. Sharp lens and smart meter that can produce very high quality images. The lens is a 35mm f/2.8 Nikkor. Nikon doesn't use the Nikkor name on their lower quality models. This lens is a gem.

If you want a high quality, metal bodied, pocket sized, point & shoot style camera, with a very smart meter, sharp lens, and the capability to shift program and compensate exposure, this camera will be a very satisfying choice, and represents an excellent value at its present price. My thanks to Barry for pushing me along in this direction and for his help in comparing the various models.

Yashika T4 glass is great, but the absence of automation overrides makes the camera hit or miss for anything other that snapshot photography.

Hexar is truly excellent, but hardly a compact.

I'd add a used Rollei 35S to the list of compacts to consider. Singapore models can be found for $250ish and the results from this fully manual compact are impressive.

I had been reading about the Yashica T series of cameras for years and finally decided to buy one to take to the Olympics last June instead of my EOS'. I purchased a T-4 Super The camera is light and pocketable, shirt pockets included. My only problem has been with backlighting and side lighting, which both seem to fool the autoexposure mechanism. I suspect that using fill-flash would solve this, but in a quick moment cycling through the options would mean losing the shot. The lens is sharp, but there is a soft side; mine has a soft right side. The T-4 has become my everyday, take-it-along on a buisness trip camera. The Canon and Rollei 2 1/4 remain hiome.

The foto-magazin data which seems to imply the Yashica is superior to its far more expensive counterparts is interesting, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. There is just no doubt that the Contax T2 is better than the Yashica. I have owned both in the last six months, having been a little disappointed with the T4 (T5 in the UK). I finally dug deeper into my pocket and bought a T2. I can't refer to lens charts, or all the other paraphrenalia of magazine reviews, but simple side by side comparisons show me, that the T2 is a fantastic camera. I use it alongside a Leica R5 without batting an eyelid, and happily mix slides from both cameras when assemling a slide-show, with wonderful consistency of results. This seems to me the point for having a P&S -- as a supplement for bigger/better/heavier SLR's, but able to replicate, or at least approximate, SLR quality. Glenn mentions the Rollei 35S; I also have one of these. Although awkward to use, particularly in focusing (which is done entirely by guesstimating the distance), and the eccentricity of having the flash shoe on the underside of the body, its Sonnar lens is exceptionally sharp (as it is on the T2). Another thing about P&S's is that you dont need to restrict yourself to having just one. I find there are times when I need their compactness, but enjoy having two of them to allow mixing film types, slides and b/w in my case. Two of them can still be carried in average pocket space. I have so much faith in the T2, I now use it often simply as another lens, no longer carrying a 35mm, but instead using its 38mm when 28 is too wide, and 50, too long. All the other P&S virtues remain undiminished. Flash grabs (baby doing his once in a lifetime things, first steps, tearing up newspapers, grinning like a clown -- AND, for my partner to take pics with ME in it. She has NO interest in cameras whatsoever, but likes the pics the P&S takes without having to give a pico-second's thought to exposure, focus etc. Not to be sneezed at. (Does this count as a "persistent" point? Why are these comments "persistent" anyway?

Several years ago I purchased a Rollei Prego Micron to take with me to Mardi Gras--I didn't want the burden of one one of my SLR's. Factors influencing my purchase decision included the panoramic lense, which proved to be just the ticket for photographing the parades, but hasn't proved very useful since, and the small size. All told, I'm very happy with this camera and the images it produces. I even sold some photographs taken with the Rollei to an English Land-Rover magazine. I submitted the transparencies from the Rollei along with the rest to see what would happen. To my delight, half of the six photos the magazine chose to publish had come from my P&S. Proof to me that it's not so much the gear as your ability to capture the image. The Rollei has all but replaced my 35mm Canon A-1, AE-1program and the accompanying brace of lenses, filters and accessories for most of my shooting.

That being said, I have one major complaint about the camera, and once caution, which should probably be added to the "using your P&S" section. The complaint is that the Rollei, or at least mine, doesn't actually give a low battery warning. (The manual says it will, but it lies "and we must be merciful to those who lie.") In practice, you learn that your battery is gone when the film fails to advance completely and the camera goes "dead" for all practical purposes. Replacing the battery is simple and I always carry a spare. But once you've replaced the battery you have to rewind the roll of film that's in the camera and replace it--unless you have the ability to fish the leader out in the field, this means "wasting" a roll of film. For some reason the camera employs artificial intelligence that only allows it to go dead three shots into a 36 exposure roll of film. (And I usually forget to mark the roll so I end up sending it off for processing not "recycling" it.)

My caution seems will probably seem like common sense to most people--Remember to keep the lense clean! It's arguably more important than with your SLR (or other fancy) optics because the element is so much smaller. I just got a roll of film back from the lab--another Land-Rover rally and was real disappointed with the results. Poor "focus", lousy exposures and a noticeable vignetting on panoramic shots. I'd never shot such a consistently bad roll of film with this "idiot proof" camera before. A close examination showed the (most likely) culprit--a dirty lense, especially a "ring" around the outer edges. I took a lense tissue wrapped Q-tip to it, and trust the problem is solved, though I haven't shot a test roll yet.

I'd highly recommend the Rollei Prego Micron to anyone looking for a "daily driver" as long as the above is kept in mind. I confess, I'm probably going to try to borrow a T4 though--just to see what all the fuss is about.

This review is somewhat of a counterpoint to Glen's review of the 35ti above. I too decided that I wanted a camera that I could put in a pocket and take with me most of the time. Everyone says how great the T4's lens is but I've also heard they're not very reliable and there's no exposure control. The 35ti looked nice but I always thought the price was too high.

If you want the short version, I think the GR1 is great. If you want more info, read on.

Ricoh introduced the GR1 at the beginning of the year to compete with the 35ti, T2, etc. except the price is quite a bit cheaper. The 35ti seems to be selling for about $600 these days and the GR1 sells at B&H for about $420. www.netmarket.com has the GR1 for about $320 but they try to suck you in to a membership(This can be avoided if you read the site). All the rest of the so-called luxo P&S's cost around $800.

The 28/2.8 lens is excellent, sharp and contrasty. Ricoh has even released the lens alone in a Leica M mount. The ergonomics are also excellent. The aperture dial is on the right side. It has an 'A' for auto and has detents for f2.8 to f22 in half stop increments. There is also an exposure compensation dial on the left that allows +/- 2 stops of compensation in half stop increments.

Other features of the GR1 include time exposures, focus distance lock(which allows the user to set hyperfocal distance, a nice feature) and wide area and spot passive AF. The two AF areas are similar to my N90s which facilitates switching between the two. The one area where it falls a little short AF wise is sensitivity. It is definately not as good in this area as my N90s which shouldn't be surprising. It has problems with low contrast subjects and is only sensitive to vertical lines. It does prefocus and hold focus when the shutter release is pressed halfway though. Other features include paralax correction and shutter speeds(1sec to 1/500) in the finder. The GR1 will even leave the leader out on a mid-roll rewind if the rewind button is pressed twice. I had to have my N90s reprogrammed to do that.

The flash allows the user to set normal flash, fill-flash and no flash. The fill flash seems to work reasonably well though normal flash shots suffer because the flash can leave the corners dark. Good flash shots are pretty much impossible when a tiny tube is place 2 inches from the lens anyway. My only other gripe is that the finder is pretty small and the rough surface of the magnesium shell seems like it could scratch glasses.

As far as build quality goes, I don't think it's quite as good as the 35ti but it is very good. Much better than a T4 and the like. The GR1 is also one of, if not the smallest 35mm camera available. It's dimensions are very similar to a Canon ELPH but it's about 3/4" longer.

A childhood marred by hundreds of terrible photos taken with P&S cameras so scarred me that I didn't bother with cameras for almost ten years, and pursued other arts and other past-times. I suppose a "real" camera would have satisfied my longing, but I don't have the time or inclination to learn how to use it. Anyway, after reading these pages I was inspired to give it another shot, and on these recommendations, I purchased a Yashica T4 Super from Adorama. Fortunately, they didn't screw me, and I love the camera. It is light, but exudes quality, and the results are fantastic. I love the ability to control the flash and lock focus while composing a shot. I understand these features are not unique to the Yashica, but they are new to me, and are quite exciting. I've been experimenting with light and composition and have come to the conclusion that a good lense and skill beats a telephoto most of the time. I paid around $150US for the camera. Expenses are going up though, as I experiment with different types of film and different developers. I can easily burn through a roll of 36 in ten minutes. Anyway...go for the Yashica and work on your skills and I think you'll be happy. Thanks for a great resource, Phil!

I have gravitated away from using my SLR systems except on rare occasion. Nowadays, compact 35mm cameras are my most used tools. A few comments on different cameras I've had experience with:

Olympus Infinity Stylus Simple, cheap, good quality. Been bashed around for 6 years and still working well. A bit too much red-eye. Quite acceptable for prints up to 5x7, occasional 8x12s. Decent focus, somewhat cruder exposure. Good buy.

Yashica T4 Super Took three rolls of film with a borrowed one. The lens seems excellent, but the exposure and focus system only seemed so-so. It's a notch above the Olympus Stylus due to the excellent optic but not much more.

Leica Minizoom Yes, the lens is slow. Other than that, the optics are absolutely top notch, the exposure and focus are excellent, and there's just enough controllability to make it really useful. Bulb for time exposures is a great asset. Sleeper, worth every penny.

Nikon 35Ti I used one of these for two years. I ultimately found it a very frustrating camera to use its extensive features, although the lens and controlability with overrides are great. The controls are fiddly, the focus is finicky. Exposure is right on the money nearly 100% of the time. Mine jammed twice and needed a fairly expensive repair.

Contax TVS Serious bux for a camera with a very slow lens, but the imaging quality of the Zeiss lens is lovely and this is one point and shoot with all the bells and whistles, and they are actually usable. It takes filters, a lens hood, has excellent exposure control, manual focus with focus aids, plenty of exposure override range, optional databack, etc etc. I've taken some wonderful pictures with it. The manual zoom is great because you can set *precisely* what you want, as well as the aperture. The viewfinder is a little dim. A wonderful does everything camera. I had a jam in the zoom control which Contax fixed on warranty.

Ricoh GR1 Simply superb. Very tiny with an extremely sharp, fast f/2.8 28mm lens. Controls are exactly what you would want to do real photography: exposure overrides, focus locking, aperture priority or program automation. Stark and business like (mine is black), the all magnesium body is light and rigid, very nice to the touch. Just a hair larger than my wallet, fits (inside its leather slip case) in my pocket with ease. If you like the wide angle format, this is one of the best cameras in the genre.

Rollei 35 My old standby favorites. Not a point and shoot but a 100% manual, mechanical camera with a simple coupled meter, scale focusing. Real shutter speeds from a real Synchro-Compur shutter. A Zeiss lens (either 40/2.8 Sonnar or 40/3.5 Tessar) which is as good as any I've every seen on anything. Compact, made of metal, a trifle blocky but very good to the touch. Superb photographs. I end up carrying one of these (a Rollei 35S or Classic) and the Ricoh GR1 whenever I travel nowadays, leaving the SLRs at home.

I also carry Minox subminiatures ... nothing beats a Minox for portability ... and unlike some people, I always keep whatever I'm carrying in a minimal leather slip case rather than just banging around in my pocket. They last a lot longer that way.

I've got pictures from most of the above cameras on my website at http://www.bayarea.net/~ramarren if you care to look in and see what can be done with a P&S camera. -godfrey

A little rant on the Pentax 90WR:

Great little camera, but it has a few quirky problems:

--AFAIK, there is no way to explicitly turn off the flash, & not have an unacceptably slow shutter speed. Idiot proofing goes both ways, ya know. *Ponders the roll of film wasted, thinking that the shutter was going at a decent speed*.

-- The remote's a little pathetic. Rather embarassing, standing there taking portrait shots, having to press the shutter relase 3 times to get it to go once..

-- And finally, the *MOST* annoying thing: Red-Eye reductions flash. This plain, just does not work. I ran about 3 rolls through the camera (you know, the "gimmie a buck, I'll give you a 4x6" portrait thing), thinking that the redeye flash would actually work. Each of the seventy or so proofs I got back had red-eye in each of the subjects (victim's) eyes. Chalk those up to the trash pile..

Of course, there was *PLENTY* of light, even at 65mm, and prolly an f8 that the camera didn't need a flash, but to turn it off, I would have been photographing a bunch of kids at around 1/15 shutter speed. There's something wise to try, even with a tripod.

*climbs down off of the table*

A couple of years ago I went on a long cycling trip and couldn't take my old 35mm SLR, so I looked around and bought a Pentax ESPIO Mini point and shoot, with no zoom. It took better, sharper shots than I ever had with an SLR, and because it was so tiny it could go everywhere. Unfortunately it moved out with a girlfriend a while back, so that was that and I'm back to the SLR again... so be warned, good P&S cameras are partner-friendly in a way that no manual SLR will ever be!

Needing another P&S I jumped at B&H's closeout deal on a Leica Mini II at $109. I ordered it on 12/23, and it showed up the next day- all for the standard $6.96 shipping. Not bad.

It's a great little camera with really sharp, contrasty optics; I love showing large prints made with this camera to friends sporting expensive autofocus SLRs with cheap zoom lenses ;-). I bought it as something to always carry with me when I didn't want to haul an SLR, but it's lately been my favorite camera. Why carry an F3 with a 35mm/f2 (my favorite combo) when I can get similar capability in a pocket sized package? Neat. Yes, it can't handle difficult exposure and so forth, but shooting Velvia on a hazy day it produced beautiful results. I think I'll addd a small collapsable reflector for a studio-in-a-pocket!

I showed the camera and results to a friend who owns a local gallery (and is a photographer as well), and she showed it to her daughter to immediately phonedB&H to get one for herself. Sadly, only the date-stamp versions are left, but she ordered one anyways with the idea of taping over the LEDs.

Two notes on protecting P&S cameras. One, a beer hugger works wonders around a camera when there is physical activity involved. The beer hugger makes a good inexpensive case. I used to rock climb with a camera this way. Two, (untried) I bet a zip-lock baggie would solve the pocket lint problem. Of course, the baggie would need to be replaced every three weeks. Cheaper than a camera every couple of months though.

I have the Leica Mini and my mother has the T4. I bought the T4 for her since the price was right for her; however, I would have gotten the Leica Mini otherwise. In comparing pictures from the two cameras, I have concluded that the Leica is sharper but the contrast is the same-spectacular! Both cameras have exposed many rolls of film without a hitch, and the exposures and focus have been right on. The only criticism of the Leica lense is that with contrasty slide film, I detected obvious, but not objectionable, vignetting. I suspect that this performance would also be experienced with the T4 and other P&S cameras which are designed for print film with which vignetting is not a problem. Just a further note. I have seen the cross sections of both lenses, and they appear to be the same! Coincidence? I doubt it!

I bought an Olympus Epic over the competition (Yashica T4 Super, Ricoh R1, etc) when the sliding cover of my Pentax UC1 broke off (nice looking, but really wimpy cover). The main selling points were the robust sliding cover (thick plastic) and the 1/2 stop faster hybrid aspheric lens.

Handling on the Epic is fairly good compared to the above mentioned cameras: it's thicker than the almost uncomfortably thin UC1 and R1 and my fingers don't get in the way of the lens like with the T4. The shutter release is very wide and large, but the mode buttons are pretty tiny (aren't they all?). Sliding case works well, protecting the lens and other optics from scratches and dust, even in my pants pocket. Biggest complaint is the location of the viewfinder is too close to where your hand ends up, a little awkward sometimes.

As for operation, it's okay. As any P&S, the flash is tiny and weak and far too close to the lens. The annoying strobe red-eye feature has never successfully eliminated red-eye in any of my pictures. The color-balancing feature seems to just result in overlit subjects, not too useful.

I tested with Kodak PRN 100, Elite II 100, Royal Gold 400, Gold Max (800), and Fuji Super G 800 (I don't use much fast print film, so I was goofing off). My slides seemed ~1/2 stop overexposed, but the metering was consistent and not a problem at all for negatives. Colors seemed colder than what I'm used to with the UC1 or my Nikon SLR and I found that Royal Gold 400 balances that very well.

There seems to be some truth to the rumors on the net that autofocus isn't very good. The Epic seems really biased towards wide open exposure and f2.8 at 35mm isn't great for depth of field, which is part of the problem. Still, even though the Epic has active AF and lots of focusing steps, focus is often fuzzy (even on some tripod-mounted shots). Also, my earlier UC1 was much better at catching off-center subjects. When the Epic is focused properly, sharpness is good across the field, geometry is fine, and there is little noticable drop-off at the corners despite the fast lens.

Overall, focus seems inconsistent and the metering overexposes slides, but handling is good, the camera is rugged, and the lens is sharp. I'll be sending this beast back for adjustment to see if things improve and will report back if they do (I've had it for two months, so will be sending it out to Olympus).

Ok, ok... Has anyone seen a review or used the new minox cd 70?

I considered a T4, but wanted a bit more width. Went with the Pentax UC-1. Very nice little camera. It too gets carried around in my left pants pocket, no problems to date except the fake metallized finish gets all sratched up, and after a while is as attractive as the bottom of an ashtray.

My other models are a Canon Z-135, a pair of 1987 vintage Ricoh TF-500's, and a Canon A-1 submersible.

Since the Canon only goes to 38 mm, I wanted the 32 mm in the UC-1 as a companion. They travel together in a fanny pack with a pair of 8x20 binoculars. Both do very nicely indoors and out and both have excellent flash uniformity, something the Minolta Explorer failed in my test. The Z-135 is particularly sharp and contrasty. The Z has an undocumented feature: If you hold down the flash it goes into an available light mode.

The Ricoh's are dual focal length (35 f/2.8 & 70 f/5.6). Very sharp, high contrast, nice flah and +2 stops compensation. Metering good enough for slides. These are my standard of comparison. If it beats or equals the Ricoh it can stay.

Have 2 comments on P & S problems: Many models (OLympus 3500 is one) that have too low a meter coupling range for ISO 400. 3500 was optimistic at EV-16. ISO 200 is the limit. Sunny 16 rule is EV 15 and that assumes 18% reflectance. Second problem is back light compensation by auto flash. Works at the most inopportune times! Olympus 3500 had a fine through the finder (TTF) multi-zone meter with a 6 mm spotmeter. The selective meter plus an overaggressive backlight algorithm called for flash on the sunlight side of a caboose when the meter saw the dark side window as being backlight. Later a shot of a hillside about 1.5 miles away called for flash because a grove of trees was darker than the trees around it. I have a nice collection of "sunballs" reflected off tour bus windows because the stupid thing thought the subject was backlighted. The Z-135 replaced it. The earlier Z-115 has severely flawed logic for anti-redeye and some other things, too.

Neither of these behaviors was reported by the magazines.

You mentioned the Stylus Epic. A friend bought one on my recommendation. Fortunately he loves it. Uses it for slides with excellent results, awesome lens. If my UC-1 succumbs to pocket lint, I,ll probably get an Epic. I amy get one anyway. I tend to covet neat things and I like the weatherproofing.

Nice column.

After lots of reading here and elsewhere I purchased a Ricoh GR1. Summary: The more I use it the better I like it!

Background: I'm not a serious photographer and my primary criteria for the GR1 was that it had to be small (since I pack light), capable of producing great slides (accurate exposure, sharp images) and good for landscape shots while travelling. I've put 15 rolls of film through it so far (mostly in Nepal - an awesome place).

First impressions:

+ The human engineering is excellent. E.g. The viewfinder tells you when exposure compensation is active, it differentiates 'can't expose correctly' (outside shutter speed/aperture range) vs too slow for hand-holding (1/30s). The controls are well laid out and retain their settings between shots when it makes sense to do so (eg. locked infinity or "snap" focus modes). The manual aperture & exposure compensation can be set by feel while looking through the viewfinder

+ the camera sometimes had trouble focusing on infinity. In bright daylight, outdoors, trying to capture a mountain vista with no objects in the foreground "two heads" would illuminate in the viewfinder indicating a close focus. Sometimes simply releasing the shutter button and then half-pressing again would make it switch to "mountain" but other times I had to aim elsewhere. Mostly I would just put the camera in fixed-infinity mode (aka "mountain" :->) and forget about it. At times when I would expect it to have problems such as through glass or poor light it usually worked perfectly. The good news here is that a) the viewfinder gives a clear indication of the approximate focus point chosen (via symbols), b) it focuses quickly if you release and refocus, c) focus lock is easy (the shutter button is very predictable so I never took a picture by mistake when trying to focus and reframe) and d) you can lock infinity

+ the "square brackets" in the viewfinder effectively show what was focused by showing left, right or both brackets (or flashing to show no focus lock)

+ the 28mm lens is excellent for landscape shots (as you'd expect). However, as a wide-angle neophyte I was surprised by how hard it is to get portrait type shots (including small animals etc). I had to get much closer than usual which tends to upset the subject, although close-ups of plants, carvings etc worked great. Distortion at the edges was quite noticeable on buildings so I know to allow a reasonable width border in future if I think it will matter (the Taj Mahal towers look strange leaning in - especially when they actually lean out!)

+ I was pleasantly surprised that the viewfinder framing seemed very accurate - I didn't have any photos with clipped people, buildings or frames as with previous P&S cameras. This is helped no doubt by the viewfinder framing lines that change depending on the focus distance

+ the max 2 sec automatic exposure covered many situations automatically that other P&S cameras couldn't. I wish it had a shorter self-timer mode (than 10sec) since I primarily used it for tripod exposures where a 2 sec delay would be plenty. You also have to re-apply self-timer after each exposure which doubtless reflects its designed use, but not my typical use. The "T" mode exposure (press to open, press again to close) works as expected

+ between the wide angle lens, its fast 2.8 aperture and the bright days in Nepal, I soon switched from 400asa film (my usual P&S film) to the 100asa I had "just in case". The top 1/500 shutter speed wasn't always enough.

+ occaisionally the camera would turn on in its case and the lens would try to extend and fail against the tight case. Slipping the case off and turning the camera off/on again reset it as expected and it doesn't seemed to have harmed anything (except the case is developing a lens ring stretch mark)

+ the date stamp turned itself on during my first roll of film. I watched it after that and never found it on again, but its something to keep an eye on

+ the flash seems to work ok, but most of the time I left it switched off. I suspect this helps battery life a lot since if you leave it in "A"uto mode each time you turn the camera on a blinking led shows the flash charging. I'm still on the first battery after 15 rolls of 36 with maybe 40 flash photos total (mostly fill-in flash triggered by forcing it on)

+ I consistently got 37 photos on a roll of 36. Because the camera spools the film off on loading and then winds it back into the canister after each photo, the count is always accurate and it shows photos remaining rather than photos taken (which makes it a little confusing when switching between cameras). Auto film loading always worked first time.

+ the camera feels solid and has held up well (so far - its early days yet I realize). I kept it in my pants pocket in its slip case most of the time and despite banging into things and the occaisional fall from a shirt pocket it doesn't show any signs of damage. The slip case is great because it doesn't add to the camera size significantly.

I've purposefully avoided attempting to evaluate lens and exposure quality since I don't feel qualified to do so and don't have any enlargements yet. They look clear to me and usually the default exposure setting produced the best slide in the bracketed sets I did.

In summary, it was expensive compared to other P&S cameras, but I think I'll be using it for a longer time and taking much better photos with it.

Comments on the Contax TVS

About 2 years ago I decided to move into MF photography. I sold all my 35mm gear and bought a Pentax 645. I soon realized that I was missed having a light portable 35mm around to take snap shots. After checking through the various options (T4, T2, etc.) I decided on a Contax TVS.

Positives: 1) The lens produces beautiful, saturated, contrasty images. The manual zoom range is just about ideal for most of my needs (continuously variable 28-56mm). 2) Nice, precise autofocus. Until you get the hang of it, you will produce some out-of-focus shots. 3) It takes a full range of filters, hoods and lens caps available from Contax or B+W. 4) The automation is well thought out. Exposure control can be fully program driven or aperture driven. Focusing can also be handled manually with a built-in assist. 5) The body is beautifully finished and quite durable. Mine has been dropped and banged about quite a bit without leaving a mark on the body. 6) Contax has provided excellent service for the camera. A few months ago I was having a problem with infinity focus on the TVS and sent if back for adjustment. Contax CLA'ed the camera but didn't correct the problem. The camera was sent back again and Contax sent a note apologizing for the problem and replaced the lens and internal assembly at no cost to me. Needless to say, the camera works beautifully now.

Negatives: 1) The viewfinder is more dim than I would like. 2) Film speed can't be manually set (recognizes DX coding from 25-5000). If you want to change the film speed, you need to either set exposure compensation (+/-5 in 1/3 stop increments) or order DX labels from Porter's and re-label the film canister with the appropriate speed DX label before loading it into the camera. 3. Although I love the lens, I wish it were a little faster (2.8 vs. 3.5). 4. The TVS is fairly expensive. I bought mine used for about $850. I expect it will last me a lifetime, but you could buy and lose quite a few T4 or T5s for that money.

Comments on the Yashica T4 Super....Having read generally good things here, I bought one and tested it using ASA 100 slide film in a side-by-side comparion with my other cameras (Canon Elan IIe w/ 28-80 USM IV, Pentax ME super, and a 15 year old Minolta AF2). While the exposures were very good, within 1/3 stop or less, the sharpness of the slides under a loupe were disappointing. Even at the center of the frame with pictures taken in bright light (small aperture) the results were not as good as the old Minolta.

Maybe it was that particular camera (I'ver read they might not be made in the same place as the older ones), or perhaps the autofocus wasn't up to snuff, but I reluctantly ended up returning it and will look for another. I really thought that Zeiss lens would do wonders, but considering the (inexpensive) cameras I compared it to (except the Canon), I could see no reason to keep it. Too bad, because otherwise I liked the layout, size and simplicity of the camera.

PS: I also noticed the delay in autofocus that others reported as well as the vignetting, even in full sun.

About eight years ago I bought one of the original Nikon Tele-Touch cameras. It had good film handling, a 35-70 (or so) lens, took nice pictures, and had a pop-up flash that my fingers wouldn't block. It was one of the most usable P&S cameras I've ever used.

Needless to say, it broke at the worst possible time (I had just gotten off the plane in St. Petersburg). That was about four years ago, and I didn't risk a P&S again until last year, when I bought a Fuji Endeavour 100 APS camera, no zoom. I've been very happy with it so far--the pictures, especially closeups, have been very sharp and have excellent contrast. The whole camera is very small, and seems to have good pants-pocket survivability. I've taken to carrying it around along with my bigger Nikon system when traveling, so I can keep slide of T-Max in the SLR and still have some color prints to show everybody at home.

After reading photo.net about six months ago, I bought a T4 (non-super) in Penn Station on a whim. I'm typically using it with Kodak TMY rated at 3200 and Iford Delta 100. The results in both cases are really quite stunning. Side-by-side comparisons with similar handheld shots in ordinary light with a Nikon 20-35 2.8 zoom did not embarass the little Zeiss 35mm on the T4. I used the Nikon and my wife used the T4 at the wedding, and most people can't tell the quality of the photos apart at 8x10 enlargements. I've even enlarged the TMY to 3200 with excellent contrasty results -- it provides an excellent reportage look that I got on about ten rolls on a recent trip to India. The meter is great and the negs are sharp corner to corner under a loupe -- Velvia slides are quite spectacular.

What's not to like? The most annoying things for me are (1) the lag time to rack out the little lens for autofocus -- there's no way to focus ahead of time and use it to capture the moment like a good rangefinder; this alone is going to cause me to replace the camera, (2) no exposure adjustment -- this is somewhat mitigaged by exposure lock, but the problem is that it's coupled to the focus lock, and (3) the flash is totally lame [don't even think about comparing this to the Nikon F5 + SB26 :-)] -- in full and fill modes. That's why I use it in with Delta 100 in the sun and with TMY at 3200 with no flash otherwise.

i recently had slides, taken by my yashica t4, transferred to negative film ( 35mm).The shots were of sunsets at the end of our lake, low cloud cover, amazing sharp slides. The negs, when enlarged to 8x10 prints were all crisp and the colour saturation was spot on. very good results from a 35 mm point and shoot camera. My other sytem is all canon eos, with L, usm lenses, the yashica t4 compares favouribly with the canon lenses. This tiny camera is my constant companion,

Update on the Epic: returned mine, was given a new one by the shop (nice guys at the local Ritz Camera). Ran through a roll of PRN on a tripod, it seems to be more consistent at focusing, but not too sharp overall compared to the Yashica T4 Super I bought in frustration. Another roll of slides confirmed it wasn't just the printing, my sample of the T4 was noticably sharper than my second sample of the Epic.

Anyways, at $99 now for the Epic, I decided to keep both.

I just purchased an Olympus Stylus Epic for $99. I ran a few rolls through it. I haven't received the results yet, but am excited about it. I would also like to purchase the Yashica T4 Super at some later date, but need to save for it. I have an old Olympus XA which I love. Unfortunately, it is stuck in perpetual time release mode, and needs to go into the shop to be fixed. I do believe it is the best little point and shoot, and it is a collector's item. I like the rangefinder focusing.

Recently when looking for a P& S camera a dealer showed me a new model from Minox a CD-25. I was impressed by its styling but found it was too limited. I checked out the wonderful MINOX website and found a whole line of 35 and APS cameras with detailed technical information. I decided that the features of the CD-70 was just what I wanted. The best pricing was found at Camera World of Oregon, again by checking their web-site. I was promised delivery in a week or so but found much to my surprise it was delivered a couple of days later. Well let me tell you this is an ergonomically well designed camera and as importantly it takes great pictures. Large illuminated finder, readable lcd readout on the back of the camera and options to control flash and other aspects were important consideration for me. Extended shutter speeds was also essential. I have a stunning night photo of Grand Central Station that is just about magazine quality...I would love Minox to make a metal version with perhaps larger buttons for options. Right now I am very, very pleased with this camera and recommend it highly.

After reading this article I decided to buy myself the T5. I think it works great. I will give the first roll of film to processing today. There's just one thing I dislike up to now. Every time I turn the camera on. I starts in auto-flash-mode. From my SLR i am used to have the camera where I left it after switching it on again. It is pretty annoying, if you take a picture, assuming the flash is still off, but it's in automatic mode again.

MINI P&S EVALUATION Cameras: Stylus Epic, Stylus Zoom, Pentax 928, Yashica T* Film: Fuji 100 color negative Shots: Same picture of my home in bright sunlight. All cameras tripod mounted for test. Prints: 4 X 6 processed at a high quality 1 hour lab. Evaluation Criteria: Sharpness in the center as well as at the edges of the negative and print. Vignetting. Accurate framing of viewfinder and final negative - centered and 90% or better. Good registration of frames on negative - even spacing. Reliable functioning of camera.

Results:

STYLUS EPIC: 35mm fixed lens is very sharp across the picture. Hard to distinguish between this and other cameras tested. Really good lens. All other criteria met. $99 camera.

STYLUS ZOOM: Pictures at 35, 50, and 75mm were tack sharp across the frame on all pictures. All other criteria met. I was surprised at the consistent performance of this zoom. All other criteria met. $150 camera.

Pentax 928: Excellent performance at 28mm and 90 mm with good framing accuracy. My daily carry camera. All other criteria met. $200 camera.

Yashica T*: First Yashica P&S with Tessar - 1980 something vintage. Standard excellent 35mm 3.5 Tessar performance in this used camera that I got for $27. Tack sharp everywhere. I can see why people really like this lens. This camera is so old that it still uses AA batteries and no DX. All other criteria met.

SUMMARY: In a way, this evaluation is a big nothing - so what, everything seemed to be perfect. That's right! I was looking for standard bottom line picture performance, and these cameras blew me away. I have a couple Nikon bodies and a few Nikkor lenses, so I know what quality looks like. These cameras have what it takes to deliver good pictures. Tripod mounting helped a lot to achieve the quality I saw. Although I did the evaluation with 100 speed film, I carry 400 color negative (Costco/Agfa 400) and Kodak 400CN B&W on a daily basis, and am very happy with the results of these films. Point and shoot cameras deliver!

MINI P&S Evaluation corrections/clarifications

None of the cameras showed any vignetting, especially the Pentax 928 at 28mm.

The Stylus Zoom is a 35 - 70, not 75 at the far end.

P&S cameras have been a delightful discovery and have added a new dimension to my enjoyment of photography.

Yashica T4-super in the US ($150-$160), T5 in Europe, Kyocera T-proof in Japan ($200) is a wonderful camera due to its Carl-Zeiss lens.

Be aware, however, that it is not actually a P&S (Point and Shoot) camera. It belongs to a new class of compact cameras developed by Kyocera's engineers: so-called

PS&SP cameras - Point, Shoot and Still Point cameras.

These cameras are so intelligent that, after you press the shutter release button, they will wait and decide themselves when to shoot. As a result, you can also call this type of compact cameras:

S&TP cameras - Space and Time Parallax cameras.

Keep it in mind if you are going to shoot action.

:)

A camera no one has mentioned yet is the Rollei Prego Zoom 35-70. After considering the Stylus Epic (mainly for its size) and the Minolta Freedom Zoom Explorer (for the extra fun in zooming), I ended up with the Rollei. My main reason was the fact that my roommate is a photographer who has both the Rollei and the Yashica, but he never uses his Yashica while he often uses his Rollei. I've taken a few rolls with it even testing the lens for sharpness, and it looks great. The lens is a little faster than the Minolta and about the same price - $150 with battery and case at Camera World of Oregon. A nice bonus is the 3 year warranty.

If you can find one, I recommend the Fujifilm DL Super Mini, w/28mm f3.5 lens. I have a Konica T3 w/several lenses and Pentax ZX-5 w/50mm and 28- 105mm f2.8 zoom plus a Canon Elph, Jr (for which I traded the remains of a Minolta XK W/several fungus-eaten lenses). All of these I enjoy & use to shoot @ 50-75 pictures a week (it's a hobby, not my business). I find myself using the Fuji more & more; it is very compact, has an excellent lens, quick focus (and manual focus when needed), a decent flash, all-aluminum body w/sliding cover, shutter speed up to 1/800th, size smaller than any 35mm I've seen other than the Minolta TC- 1, and again, an excellent lens. My only complaint is that it is too automatic. Except for the manual focus and flash variations (on, off, night and +2ev backlight compensation), you can't alter any setting and it's program only, of course. BUT, it fits any pocket, seems lint- resistant, is very quick and easy to use. I recommend it, if you can find one. I found mine in a pawn shop for $35, including tax and I love it.

I went into the store with every intention of buying the Yashica Microtec Zoom 70 (which received excellent reviews in multiple magazines). I would have never thought that being "left-eyed" would make such a difference. The controls are so inconveniently positioned, that my eyeglasses were smeared with fingerprints. It's less of a problem with the Minolta Freedom Explorer, but still inconvenient.

i have three of the more popular compact cameras often reviewed on this forum in individual fashion; i thought someone might be interested in my experiences. i will be brief. the cameras in my possession are: a yashica t2 with a 35/3.5 zeiss tessar lens; a olympus stylus epic with a 35/2.8 zuiko; and a ricoh gr-1, 28/2.8. quite frankly, i don't think the yashica measures up to the other two cameras. the metering is more easily confused, often delivering underexposed images. furthermore, the sharpness of the lens is not the equal of the others, especially at 5x7. in fairness, i have not had the body serviced since purchase, which was several years ago. the olympus is wonderfully light, well-protected, and sublimely easy to use under most circumstances. it is by far the best choice for hiking, fishing, family photos at the beach; anywhere that quick handling and a need for camera protection converge. however, to match the ricoh in metering accuracy, it is necessary to utilize the "spot" feature, which requires repeated double button activation, and some uncertainty about the actual area covered by the "spot" effect. assuming correct metering, the lens delivers crisp, beautiful exposures. however, the clear winner when the goal is excellent image making, or what i call "serious photography", is the ricoh gr-1. it has terrific ergonomics; a tiny body, but with controls that are sized fine for my larger than average hands. the "program" mode is productive of perfect images in family snapshots, or even lighting conditions. the ability to lock focus and exposure in the "spot" mode places you on equal footing with your friend and his contax aria (well, almost...), and the lens is the equal of any nikkor in my collection. the ability to lock in hyperfocal distance ("snap" mode) is something all cameras should have. i take most of my shots with this feature. of course, the provision for total manual control is the icing on this very fine cake. anyone who ever worked with a manual nikon, pentax, or minolta, will feel right at home. if this camera had the ability to interchange lens, i would do anything necessary to switch to that system. i just don't understand why ricoh, a company that is not exactly burning up the market place with its current slr offerings, doesn't use this body as the starting point for a "leica for the masses". my bet is that it would blow the contax g series in the weeds, from a popularity standpoint.

I would like to contribute an "Amen" to Wayne's evaluations of the Yashica "T-2" (T-4?), Olympus Stylus Epic, and the Ricoh GR-1. I have shot film and compared photos with all 3 cameras as well.

The T-4 is nice, but has no definite advantage over the cheaper, faster (f3.5 vs f2.8), and smaller Epic. The Epic also has a maximum shutter speed of 1/1000 compared to the 1/700 of the T-4.

In short, the Epic produces stunning photos. I compared pix made with my Nikon 4004 SLR and Nikkor 50mm lens and could detect no perceptible diffence in color, clarity or contrast. I love the waterproofing also, for shooting around the pool, at the beach, at the water park, etc. The camera is rugged and reliable. Good ergonomics, although the GR-1 can't be beat in this department.

Concerning the Ricoh GR-1: Nothing short of amazing in all areas except one, i.e. the flash. It consistently imparted a yellowish discoloration and almost blurriness to subjects photographed with flash at close range. This rendered the photos un-usable. I absolutely love the ergonomics, ease of use, sharpness, and EVERYTHING else about the camera. The 28mm lens is great for small group photos, but is only okay for head and shoulders due to the typical 28mm distortion. I particularly like the "hard switch" for turning off the flash, which allows quick access to flash on/off versus having to toggle through options and miss the shot. The other cool feature is the "memory" function when you turn the power off: it remembers the last mode used when you turn the camera back on.

So, in summary, I can HIGHLY recommend all 3 of the above cameras. I returned the T-4 to Wolf Camera (who is most delightful to deal with, although not the best prices) when I purchased my Epic, for the reasons listed above. I will also be sending back my GR-1 to Camera World of Oregon for a replacement. Since no one else has complained of the yellow tinting on close-up flash, I assume that it is a problem with the particular lens. If my replacement is bogus also, I'll inform the newsgroup. Regarding CCO: an excellent organization to deal with; let's see how they handle exchanges/refunds :-) Thanks to Phil for a GREAT website!!!!!!

For the casual spelunker (yep, cave wanderer) there is no better travelling companion, aside from a good headlamp, than the Yashica T4. I recently ran three rolls of Tri-X through my brand new T4 and I have to say, the images are marvelous: sharp and contrasty. Lighting?, you ask. Every year or so, I paint a few layers of clear nail varnish on the lens of my headlamp so as to soften the otherwise harsh light the beast emits. I do this because the resulting light is soft (a bit yellow) and can be used imaginatively with the headlamp's beam focussing ring while probing the recesses of dark, misty caves. I bought (and brought) the T4 a) because of various opinions registered here and b) because I wanted something weatherproof without having to shell out for a Nikkonos. I am one happy caveman. The T4/headlamp combination performed as well as anything else I've tried and--as a bonus--the T4 is small enough to fit into the little fannypack I bring along (other occupants: fig newtons, space blanket, whistle). Caving is only one use I put my various (six and counting) cameras to. However, based on this limited trial, I plan to shelve my tough old Rollei 35s and use the T4 for all my P&S needs. Only in cold weather, where the Rollei NEVER dies and where I suspect the T4 will poop out, will the former displace the new kid on the block.

I own a Fuji DL Mini superzoom, which is my wife's compact camera. We both love it, a great design, good ergonmics, nice spec and takes great photos. My wife uses it to chronicle her version of the development of our baby daughter. Must say that sharpness, colour and contrast of the photos are consistently very good. The only problem now and then is a touch of vignetting on flash photography, but that is too be expected of a P&S compact. The other thing that really bugs me is the noisy zoom mechanism; it really drives me up the wall when u r trying to be subtle about images. There have been quite a few times my baby angel has been woken up by the grinding ratcheting of the Fuji lens extending and retracting.

Just bot an Olympus MjuII/Stylus Epic last week for a trip to HK. It's a pretty amazing design, with a top class spec and good handling. And it was small enuff for me to carry it around in my jeans pocket.

Got my shots back a couple of days ago; I ran 6 rolls of film thru it in 4 days. All but a handful of the shots were pretty much bang on. There was one shot where the backlight fooled the metering, one where the focus point was wrong (more human error than anything), one where image was soft (may be due to camera shake, and a couple where the flash colour compensation for internal lighting caused fluorescent lighting to be overexposed.

Overall, I must say I am quite impressed with the little thing. Even more so than the Fuji. I also use Contax and Minolta for my SLR outfits, and confess that for prints, the differences in quality were not immediately noticeablem even when blown up. Am now beginning to be converted to the school of thought that P&S cameras may really become the best cameras in the world in the next few years; especially for the ones with prime lenses.

Haven't really tried the T4 yet; there is a chance I may be able to get my hands on one this week. If so, will give my feedback on how it performs.

Just ran some film thru the Yashica T4 (non-super) and got the shots back. Here are my comments:

1. Lens is indeed tack sharp. Detail, contrast and colour is better than Olympus Stylus Epic, even without enlargements and loupe. Comparison is test roll of Olympus; same range of subjects under same conditions.

2. Flash is pretty awful...worse than the Stylus epic. Lots of shadowing, and not as subtle. This auto colour correction feature of the Stylus may have something to it after all.

3. Metering is about the same. Both got fooled by same backlit subject, though the T4 image was slightly less underexposed, with more shadow detail. Could be due to the Tessar lens.

4. Handling and ergonomics...mixed bag. Yashica has easily accesible controls, while Stylus controls are smaller, with a shutter release which does get mistaken for the lens cover when it comes to shooting. However, T4 makes the most awful grinding noises on shutter release and frame advance, with a tangible delay between depressing and release. Stylus is much crisper and more definite in its shutter and film advance mechanism. Having said that, I know the T5/T4 super is quieter and smoother on all fronts than the old T4, but still maybe not up to the Stylus standard.

Overall, in my opinion, there is little to choose. If u do a lot of flash shooting, the little Olympus may be a better bet. If conversely, u do a lot of outdoor picture taking, then the T4 is the one to go for. Handling is split and entirely a personal choice. The T4 Super/T5 is probably a smoother handler and operator than my old T4, but the T5 to me is a better design and handler overall. Then again, I have small hands and have no problems activating the spot function, which, by the way, the T4/T5 does not possess, and which I find quite useful.

So,the bottom line, in my opinion, the Stylus gets my vote, for design, for the spotmetering, and the fact that I do (unfortunately) take a lot of flash photos Of course, if only they could fit that Tessar lens over, I can live with the 1/3/1/2 stop drop in speed.

Any one have experience with a Ricoh R1/Rollei Prego Micron? Have seen a lot about the GR1, but not the lesser brethren. Anyone know of detailed reviews I can access. Once again, I may be able to borrow one soon to try out. Will let u guys/gals know soonest.

Apologies, in previous comment, in 3rd paragraph from bottom, 4th line should read Stylus rather than T5 as the better handler to me.

Hv tried the Rollei Prego Micron, the Shneider lens version of the Ricoh R1. Here are my thoughts:

1. Lens - Firstly, just to refresh, the Rollei has 2 lenses, a 30MM/3.5 and a 24MM/8, while the Stylus and T4 have 35MMs,so direct comparisons are a little tricky. With that in mind: Sharpness, better than Olumpus, just behind the CZ Tessar of T4. Colour, contrast, right up there with the Zeiss.

2. Flash - Contrary to popular belief, the Rollei fared best here. Even illumination edge to edge, natural colours, well balanced, little shadowing. Blows the other 2 away.

3. Metering - about the same across the board. No surprises.

4. Handling/Ergonomics - Wow, and I say again, Wow. The R1/Rollei Prego Micron is peerless. The overall design, placement, size and operation of the controls are the best I've seen on a compact P&S.

To close, given the abovementioned, the Rollei Prego Micron gets my vote cos of the flash, design, handling and also the specs. Although the shutter speed range is narrower than the T4 and Stylus, and it lacks a spot mode,it does have the 2 lenses (and very good ones they are too) which allow you to change your perspectiven and have true panorama (24MM). The focal lengths are ideal if u want to have a P&S primarily as a chronicler of your holiday travels, or even ordinary street life. If u want to get even more value for money, stick with the Ricoh R1, which is the original design.

Cheers, TC

I carry 3 P/S's (coat pockets), all w/ slide film:

- T4/original: 400-speed Elite. Mostly night, no-flash work. Nice as described, but hate that the infinity focus unsets after each shot (frenzied pix thru airplane windows). Focus delay sucks the most, a big reason why I use it as I do now. Love it all the same :-)

- Olympus Stylus Zoom 105: Astia 100 for people photos. HATE the long time it takes to get the lens out/in when turned on/off. HATE that it has no infinity focus. Nice feel in the hand, solid feel too. Was forced to buy it when previous zoom camera was lost en route to Burning Man - do not shop P/S cameras in Reno. Again, now that it has its niche, I'm happy with it overall.

- Ricoh Shotmaster 130: Velvia. This is the workhorse that lets the others off the hook. HATE that it has a single cheap plastic catch that breaks just from dropping from slightly higher than toilet seat (about $100+ to fix), WISH it would focus a lot closer, LOVE the matrix indicator of where the focus has been chosen <-repeat 3 times*, IMPRESSED BUT BAFFLED by the range of programming options. I HAD to get this because my Olympus was in the shop when I left for Moscow, and there it began to get 'hung' like a computer until I rewound the film, and it took 2 trips to the shop when I returned to iron it out. LOVEx3 the fast readiness (thanks to 2 batteries). The aspheric lens may account for a 'deepness' in the pix, too. OH - and LOVE that for such a big zoom, it can still be crammed into a shirt pocket.

- Next, I'd like to get a digital, if the res would only get up to say 5000x3000, but maybe I'll get something current in the meantime just to get my feet wet. Opinions on digitals very welcome.

-- Bill Ross http://www.amber.ucsf.edu/~ross/

I purchased the Olympus Stylus Epic or Mju-2 as it is known here in Oz. Its not the perfect camera and when the Yashica T4/Yashica T4 Super costs almost twice as much in this country the decision was very easy to make.

The optics are great. My friend had the earlier version (mju-1) and I was impressed with it a few years ago. The earlier version cost him more than mine now and the newer optics are much better. Value for money has certainly increased. The faster lens certainly comes in handy for low light snaps indoors and outdoors as well. It's amazing what you can do with a lens that is a little bit faster and sharper than the crowd.

The robustness of the camera is a big plus when travelling. Lens cover fits snugly keeping the lens clean and out of danger. O-ring seals are good and I have had no problems over the 9 months I have had it. I've taken it hiking in hot dusty conditions as well as humid conditions. Ttwo friends that have them are full of praise for the compactness, sharpness and versatility of the camera.

Niggling points are you have no control over the lens aperture unlike some which allow you to stopdown the lens to 'infinity'. The buttons which control the settings (flash, noflash, autoflash, redeye reduction, partial flash, spotmeter and timer) are a little fiddly. Though fiddly these buttons help with the weather proofing I guess. If its an all purpose all weather point and shoot camera that is very affordable you cannot go past it.

I read lots of the Q&A forums before buying the camera. Admittedly there are sharper point and shoot cameras out there but they will cost an arm and a leg. Anyhow, if you are going to spend big dollars and obsessed with sharpness you may as well get a cheap SLR body and a basic 50 mm lens instead. It will certainly give you more bang for your buck than an expensive priced point and shoot. For value for money you can't go past the mju-2.

As time moves on, my stylus has started to act up on me, exhibiting signs of the "I'll focus where and when I want to " syndrome that some people have raised. When it works, it is wonderful, when it doesn't it drives me crazy. Purely random, no pattern, ok for 6 rolls, then 1 roll where 20% of shots go haywire. Am considering sending it in under warranty.

The T4 is with my in-laws, compared with my Stylus, it has been a model of consistency and reliability. Pictures of my daughter under a wide variety of conditions have come out exceedingly sharp, with high contrast and very rich colours. Many enlargements have been made, bringing us great joy.

Hv also been fooling around with a new Konica Big Mini F with the 35/2.8. Beautifully designed, well constructed, sharp lens, a bit flare prone, not as contrasty as the T4's Zeiss, but still good, tiny (irritating controls), very smooth operation, quiet, fast AF, good metering,little shutter lag, and no lens cover. Also got good specs, with exposure comp, powerful flash and good range of modes.

Recently thought about going a little wider. Considered going for a wide zoom, but am very hesitant cos of quality/speed of lens at the long end. With 28's in my price range, selection is limited. The GR1 is lovely, but a little costly, so the other option is the Fuji DL Mini/Cardia Mini Tiara II. Initial impressions have been nothing short of amazing. Tiny aluminium bodied clamshell design (smaller than Stylus?), a wonderful 28/3.5 Fujinon EBC lens, truly sharp, contrasty and with vivid colours, possibly even sharper than the T4, bang on metering, mixes ambient and artificial light well, and good range of modes, apart from usual flash modes, also has infinity, snap, manual focus, backlight compensation and mid roll panorama. Curious though, there does not seem to be any fill flash function, and it appears that the flash fires almost all the time in the autoflash mode. Need to enquire about the programme. Shutter lag is also quite prominent, rather T4-esque. Apart from that, it is quite a jewel at the price. If u don't need the manual control of the GR1, I daresay the Fuji is quite possibly the best fixed focal compact P&S below USD200 around.

As an RIT photo student, I've had the pleasure of using some of the best photo equipment on the planet. From the venerable Nikon F5, to the Sinar P2 to the Mamiya RZ 67, it amazes me how people expect SLR or higher results from P&S. The sole reason I buy a P&S is too just take candid shots. If you want SLR results, go buy an SLR. I however do enjoy people's comments on these cameras, which is also important. But at the same time, please try to lighten up and not let the subject flee from you. Good shooting! =)

About 18 years ago I bought my wife a new $140 "no-think, do-everything," plastic bodied Canon ML Super SureShot with a fixed autofocus f1.9 lens. I, of course, would use a real 35mm with lots of bells and whistles, a fancy interchangeable lens, and controls I could play with. Result: she has consistantly blown me away even though she knows only enough about cameras to find the shutter button. Her trusty Canon P&S has seen heavy use and has been trouble free these 18 years.

While I was taking light meter readings and carefully focusing she was busy firing properly exposed and focused shots like a machinegun.

I now also have a Canon ML Super SureShot and my "serious" 35mm's and Hassy M/L stay in their cases.

Show me another mass market (inexpensive) P&S with a 1.9 lens as good as the Canon and I'll buy it. Until then I can get a sharp picture in light that the f3.5 and f2.8 point-and-shoot Nikons, Rolleis, etc. can't handle. I fail to understand why the f1.9 P&S Canon wasn't more popular.

I know lots of people like the Stylus Epic, but my experience with the camera has not been good. Here's what happened: - One month after I bought it earlier this year, the camera developed a light leak. I returned it to the store, which had the light seals replaced. it worked fine for exactly one roll, then started leaking light again. - I returned it again to the store which this time replaced it with a brand new Stylus Epic. First few rolls through the camera were fine, then guess what: it started leaking light. -I took it back to the store which replaced it again with another brand new one. Believe it or not, this one leaked light on the second roll. I returned this camera yesterday, got a credit note from the store and will take my time deciding what camera to buy now.

I guess I was extremely unlucky with this camera. Nevertheless, from my experience, I can hardly recommend it.

I used an Olympic Stylis for years. When they came out with the 35-70 zoom model, I bought one and gave the original to my daughter who is still using it. I never liked the pop up flash on the zoom. It seemed that my finger would often be covering it when it needed to come up. No problem now, the retracting system is broken and the flash stays up. Need a piece of Scotch Tape to keep it down for putting in pocket. Love the original, hate the zoom.

P&S cameras are attractive in a variety of applications; for me the important uses are as an affordable, very light weight camera that slips into a pocket as a back-up to my full size SLR, or as a camera to take on summit climbs, where every ounce becomes excruciating. I have tried a number of models, none of which is perfect, but all of which have their good points.

I began with a Pentax 928. On the up side, it has a great zoom range (28-90) and a user friendly design. On the down side, it lacks the sharpness for work which will be blown up to 16x20, it is very susceptible to flare, and I suspect some distortion around the edges (although I've never conducted real tests). It got handed down to my wife, who uses cameras almost exclusively for candid snaps, and she loves it.

I decided to move upmarket, and tried the Nikon 28ti. This is a wonderful piece of engineering which is sharp, rugged, and has excellent electronics supporting autofocus and autoexposure. With a 2.8 aperture it's one of the faster quality P&S lenses on the market. Prices have dropped and these are now available around $700. Ultimately I had two serious problems: I do a great deal of landscape and architecture, and the lack of a polarizing lens capability proved to be a critical flaw. I also confess that I'm basically a "zoom guy", who has never felt comfortable carrying a bunch of primes, and the fixed length lens seemed a little constraining. So the 28ti was sold, and replaced by ...

The Contax TVS, which seemed to solve both problems. It has a screw in filter adapter and a 28-45 zoom range. It also comes blessed with a wonderfully sharp, reasonably fast lens. But the promise proved better than the reality. I always had problems with both focus and exposure. Another reviewer commented that this is part of the learning curve, and that after a few rolls you start to get the hang of it, but I was able to get the camera to perform well only without a filter. The moment I screwed my B&W circular polarizer in, the electronics on the camera got very confused. Perhaps I have a very long learning curve. But after a full year I threw in the towel and sold the Contax as well.

I've stopped trying to find a pocket camera which can be all things to one person. I've settled for high quality optics in a small easy package. I learned my lesson from the senior guide at an Alpine climbing center, who smirked every time I tried to unpack my gear while dangling on a rope. He would reach into his shirt pocket and take a one-handed snap. When we got back to Chamonix I went over to his house, and was astounded by the quality of some of his shots, even in moderately large blow-ups. His camera was a tiny 35mm Minox, which is smaller than most APS cameras, but includes fine German optics and a 35mm format at an affordable price ($200-300, depending on model). I went home and ordered the GT-X, which has full manual controls as well as a P&S mode. No filter capability, not many bells and whistles, but a great 35/2.8 lens and controls which explain themselves. It's not the P&S for everyone, but it you have similiar needs, it may well fill the bill.

Regarding the new Contax TVSII and comments about using the TVS and TVSII:

I have just bought the TVSII, Contax's new version of the TVS.

What changed?

1) the viewfinder is now much brighter--the LCD masks are gone and are replaced by the simpler and more standard cropping marks at the frame edge to indicate parallax at close focus. This is the single most important change, and a welcome one.

2) the panorama mode is gone--I rate this an improvement since the same result can be had by cropping a negative that wasn't masked in the camera and since the panorama switch could be partially engaged, accidentally cropping edges on normal photos

3) the zoom mechanism is simplified--I'm not sure that this either adds or detracts, but the lever on the lens has been removed and zooming is now accomplished by a wider knurled ring around the front of the lens

4) a built in lens cap has been added--this is the standard P+S type (although it's made of metal and not plastic). I feel better with the $12 Contax lens cap in place over the built-in one since a real cap offers much more protection from dust and impact. I do like the fact that the built-in cap is there as back-up, however.

Everything else is the same: truly excellent 28-56 Zeiss T* lens, titanium body, 5 EV +/-1/3 exposure compensation, synthetic saphire windows and shutter release, ceramic film plate, etc.

My impressions after shooting 4 rolls of print film? The lens takes some of the most beautiful photos I've seen in 35mm--not only sharp, contrasty, and saturated but with excellent tonal gradation as well. The photos are comparable with results from my Leica M6 outfit and far better than results from other point and shoots I've used, including my two Yashica T4s. (So why keep the M6? Many reasons including: much faster lenses (f/2 and better), the potential for making much bigger enlargements, and allows a much different approach to photography).

Responses to other TVS comments I've seen here:

1) The dim viewfinder is no longer a drawback to this camera.

2) One post noted exposure errors with filters in place. The camera does not meter through the lens and so the exposure compensation must be used to dial in more exposure according to the filter factor. Once you do this everything works great. The passive autofocus (with low-light IR assist) is also external, so filters do not effect focussing.

3) Someone also suggested a learning curve in getting used to the camera's focussing and exposure. I don't notice that there's a problem here. My first three rolls were fine. For flash work inside, 400 ASA film would be best (as with any small on-camera flash).

4) A final comment on the AF and flash. The behavior of both can be modified. The AF can be set to move the lens into position with a half-press of the shutter release, eliminating the delay in taking a picture. The default flash mode can also be set to any of the flash modes available. I leave it set to flash off usually, since I don't like the flash going off without my permission.

I am very happy with this camera. It is, of course, one of the most expensive point and shoots, but the results are

A brief commment on APS: I recently bought a Canon Z90 for its 22.5-90mm APS zoom range (equivalent to about 28-112mm on 35mm film). Unfortunately, I have to report that I'll be changing this camera, not because of any fault of the camera - I really rather like its styling and features - but because APS just doesn't produce good enough results. I own a Canon A1 SLR based system and a Minox GT which I love, although the first is bulky and the second suffers from having a non-interchangeable fixed focal length 35mm lens. I had hoped that the Canon Z90 would solve these problems, but instead I got the APS film resolution problem. The APS film format offers several advantages with the different picture sizes available from standard processing houses, but the image quality lets it down. I long for the day when a manufacturer like Canon produces a P&S compact as well featured and egineered as the Z90, but designed around the standard 35mm film format.

Just purchased an E+ Ricoh GR1 from KEH in Atlanta for $299. and it is super! Great sharpness, color and contrast with Fuji 400 film. As I've stated before, KEH is my favorite used camera mail order store..never gotten anything that wasn't better than their rating compared to other places. I really love this camera!

Someone else mentioned having problems with light leaks in the Stylus. My mom has a Stylus and it has the same problem. Normally it isn't noticable, but in bright conditions there is a bright spot near the top of the frame. I think this may have started when I yard-saled skiing with the camera in my pocket!

Anyway, otherwise it is a great camera. How many 35mm cameras can you conveniently fit in your pocket? Not many.

Teng Cheong Khoo wrote on October 15, 1998: "As an RIT photo student, I've had the pleasure of using some of the best photo equipment on the planet. From the venerable Nikon F5, to the Sinar P2 to the Mamiya RZ 67, it amazes me how people expect SLR or higher results from P&S."

Yes, it is amazing. It is amazing and true that P&S cameras are now in some cases SUPERIOR in image quality to SLR equivalents. The lens on the Ricoh GR-1 is at least equal, and arguably superior, to the equivalent Nikkor prime. The GR-1 vibrates FAR less, due to the absence of a mirror and FP shutter. It is 10x lighter, occupies 1/10 the volume, and costs 1/10 as much as an F5. But in most photographic situations it will perform as well as or better than the F5. And if one wishes to be at all discrete, a GR-1 is immeasurably better.

"The sole reason I buy a P&S is too just take candid shots. If you want SLR results, go buy an SLR."

Whatever 'SLR results' are. I'd guess that you couldn't tell a portrait taken with a Rolleiflex from one taken with a Hasselblad. Or a landscape taken with a Pentax 6x7 from one taken with a Mamiya 7. Unless the SLR pictures were less sharp due to vibration...

The truth is that the SLR is a superbly versatile tool, but in *average* photographic situations, that means that the SLR is carrying many features that are not used. And the first principle of good design is that anything that does not add, detracts.

The REAL question is why so many people use an SLR to do a P&S's job...

Whoops. I meant to write "discreet".

I confess I haven't tried any of the current generation of (mini) point and shoot cameras that are generally being discussed but apart from SLRs and a MF system that I use for work, I have three old Nikon L35AF's, kept handy here and there. Fixed 35/2.8, very, very sharp, defeatable autoflash, backlight compensation lever, self timer, takes filters (46mm), film rewind leaves a little leader out of cassette, ASA setting is manual 25-400ASA on two of them, 50-1000 on the other -very handy for exposure compensation., runs on two AAs...last but not least...the most recent one, in excellent condition, I picked up in a pawnshop for $A10. The camera that meters to 1000ASA makes a great little infrared (point & shooter) with Kodak HS infrared and a 25A filter (film rating and dev. details if anyone's interested) p.s. No way of knowing but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 35/2.8 lens on the Nikon 35Ti is none other than what's on my old friend from circa 1983...anyway, enjoy taking pictures, whatever you shoot with.

I'm a community college photojournalist for a campus newspaper, and I recently bought an Olympus Stylus Epic... Best camera in the world, it just earned me a prize in a newspaper competition... best 'grab-shot' photo. My Konica HexanonAR and my Canon EOS rigs do NOT have the same results as the excellent f2.8 lens on the Olympus. :) I can also carry it concealed in a pocket, and people won't look at me as strangely as if I was carring my big arsed Domke bag full of lenses around. :) I'm not going to try shooting sports photos with it anytime soon, but for normal shots, the $99 is so worth it. BTW, I also want to thank people for all the nice comments about Ritz Cameras. I am an employee at one of their Kit's Cameras stores in Oregon, and I do appreciate hearing that the company I'm part of is doing a good job. Thank you!

I went thru all the comments about Styluses (Styli ?), T4s/T5s, 28/35 Tis, Rivas, UC-1s, etc.....and found them very interesting. I'm surprised no one mentioned the once-popular-but-not-so-much-now Olympus XA and XA4.

I had a couple of XAs, one for print, one for slide, but found that although the camera was very functional and innovative, the lens was so-so until about 8. So I got rid of one and picked up a nice used XA4. The lens on this is a real beauty, rivalling some of my SLR's prime 28s. Maybe I got lucky but I think most reviews of the XA4's lens were very good.

These little beauties are the grand-daddies of the current day Stylus/mju/mju II with the world's first sliding clam-shell cover, and they were a very convenient size for trekking, skiing, mountaineering.

For the uninitiated, here's a brief run-down of their features:

Common features: takes LR44/A76 cells, +1.5 backlight compensation, battery check, 10 sec self-timer.

XA : 35/2.8, range-finder focusing, aperture priority f2.8-22,1/500 to 20 sec (on mine), shutter speeds in finder.

XA4 : 28/3.5, scale focusing with close up to 30cm, strap measures to 30 and 50 cm for accurate closeups, DX coding, fully programmed 1/700 to 2 secs, close-up correction marks in finder.

I stumbled on to some of Phils stuff awhile back and at the time he was rating the Minolta explorer I think. I was in the market so I bought one. Took it with me last fall to Yellowstone and called it my "tourist cam " . cord around my neck and camera in my pocket, I could get it out in a flash. Most of my photos from The Beartooth pass were shot out the window without much composition